SB 2315 - Ag Committee Recap

njsimonson

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The Ag Committee hearing on SB 2315 went about as I expected. The landowner reps probably outnumbered sportsmen at the testimony 3:2, but many of them were there as part of a dog-and-pony show for one presenter, who made them all stand. They did not speak. I left feeling like we will need to keep the pressure on until this thing is dead and then find a way to keep it from coming back next session.

As expected, the ag committee stalled sportsmen with lots of questions (I fielded three following my own testimony) and offered up just tons of softball questions to the landowner contingent, which is about normal when they’re grilling the opposition (and it’s an ag-friendly forum). But they ran a tight ship and there wasn’t anything to complain about. The topic got on to OnX chips and other technology, and there was great misrepresentation as to its usefulness in the field, particularly as no phone numbers are included in that. (I can’t believe no one mentioned Kirsch’s Trax chips – a North Dakota product!)

You’ve all basically seen my testimony in the posts I’ve put on here, I tried to separate the fear-mongering stories from the actual numbers, and didn’t delve too far into my own experiences in the field, though I hunt 60% public, 35% Private, and 5% unposted each year:


  1. The law isn’t broken: 400 B-Misd trespass charges / 750,000 people and 59 hunting trespass charges / 140,000 hunters. Respect exists among more than 99.5% of the population, and 99.96% for posted lands. This law will not fix bad people, and already does a better job than most of our criminal statutes.
  2. The “database” proposed is a poor man’s version of PLOTS and is a half-hearted attempt to fix the problem this bill will cause when 1M Acres disappear from hunting access and was only added as Erbele had nothing else, but he sure hung his hat on how great "his idea" was. I called it a dog that didn’t hunt, and one that didn’t even guard the farmyard.
  3. As access goes, sportsmen go, and dollars go, and habitat goes and wildlife go. Federal funds from P-R and other laws will drop. Licensing revenue for the state will drop. Local funds for gas stations, restaurants and hotels will drop. We can’t afford that.
  4. Protecting hunting and fishing is a Constitutional provision, balance the public good against the unquantified “burden” or “work” required to post lands, their duty to find out facts and not feelings.
All in all, it was no better or no worse than I expected, but it left me feeling that there are other solutions that should be considered, and this nuclear option had been on the table for far too long, and how disappointed I was to return to ND and see the divide even larger than when I left in ’07. I offered three possible solutions, and explained I reached out to the moderator of an FB page yesterday who appeared to be a social leader for one of the groups attending:


  1. A joint Stockman-Sportsman-G&F module update for hunter’s ed on respecting posted land, even if it isn’t to the letter of the law – if you see the sign – stay off.
  2. Increasing all B-Misdemeanor trespass to A-misdemeanor trespass (higher penalties)
  3. Automatic seizure of firearms upon arrest, and forfeiture upon conviction.
There were no proffered solutions otherwise. They sure kept talking about OnX saving the world. There was also later discussion and offers by Terry Steinwand and others that an exploratory committee needed to assess the damage this bill would do before it is considered again, and he stressed the number one reason people quit hunting is due to access. That wrapped up the morning. I didn’t stay for the afternoon due to other matters, but it didn’t appear there were many sportsmen left to testify at the 2pm hearing.

I left with the feeling the battle will be long and grueling and every senator will count in this first vote. We cannot let off the pedal, keep contacting your legislators providing them with new information and thoughts on this topic.

Audio here: https://apps.nd.gov/itd/filetransfer/downloadByInvitation.htm?id=1-b8a60092d12a3c94a045f1f690e03d48

Our oppo starts about 45 minutes in.

Stay on 'em! We get through this...we find a better way for everyone.
 


Bottompin

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Thanks for the post! I truly hope this doesn’t pass. The majority of your arguments against it are the same as mine. I worry about what public lands we have will be overrun with sportsman due to lack of access in other places. The quality of hunting will diminish, turning away a lot of new and old sportsman. Not to mention what it would do to our non-resident friends that come to our state to chase upland and waterfowl every year. This bill hurts the blue collar hunter, not the ones that give us a bad name.
 

Fritz the Cat

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Nick,

you did a good job. Maybe a little forceful. Everyone got a kick out of you being a lawyer and former prosecutor. Mark Mazahari did a great job. Great speaker. But you guys should have brought some REAL sportsmen.

1. Dick Monson...sponsor of the fair chase ballot measure 2008 and 2010
2. Mike McEnroe..retired federal USFWS lobbyist for the wildlife society

These two elitist sportsmen took responsibility for accepting the $150,000 dollars from the Humane Society of the U.S. to fund their fair chase campaign.

3. Lloyd Jones.....head of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service. He was a sponsor of the fair chase initiative and was caught violating the Hatch Act. It is illegal to involve or give a position for the USFWS in a States rights issue. Lloyd recently retired. It is OK to testify like he did today on his "own" behalf. When he introduced himself as Lloyd Jones, did he mention he worked for the USFWS? I can't remember. If he did he should have been offering neutral testimony, not opposition.

4. Gary Masching.. sponsor of the fair chase measure. Too bad fishingbuddy threads are gone. There used to be one WHO THE HELL IS GARY MASCHING? His testimony didn't help today. Too, in your face.

5. Bill Helpfry……...Bowhunters Association. Bill was in the fair chase folly boiler rooms and knew the shit storm that was coming back when. He tried to involve the Bowhunters but they declined. Today, his testimony didn't help. The Senators kind of went after him. He contradicted himself.

6. Carmen Miller....Ducks Unlimited. Enough said.

To Nick and Mark, you two were in very poor company today. These 6 do not represent the average ND sportsmen. They represent the ND wildlife federation, wildlife society and ducks unlimited. federal controlled opposition orgs.

Today there were four seated in the back wearing hunter orange. The leader was Al Sapa (wildlife society) they are trying to mimic Montanan's who do that.

Terry Steinwand testified neutral. That is the way it is supposed to be. It was mentioned earlier someone figured the Governor told Game and fish to stand down. That is bogus. Government employees are supposed to be neutral. Anyway Steinwand mentioned they had several meetings between sportsmen and landowners. The first went well, the second blew up.

Nick and Mark, if new meetings get underway to possibly amend a more favorable outcome to all, might I suggest finding some REAL sportsmen.
 

njsimonson

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you did a good job. Maybe a little forceful. .

What do you mean MAYBE?!? ;:;rofl;:;rofl;:;rofl I'm always on 11, which here in middle age is still about 9.5. LOL. Mark's NDSU example was perfect and he was an excellent sportsman-speaker!

While I disagree with your points against these individuals, as we all carry baggage, and do our best with it, and they are no less sportsmen. I do agree with you that we need more sportsmen - NEW SPORTSMEN - at the microphone, ones that have not spoken up before. We need a new, modern coalition not just for this issue, but to face the many new challenges that are arising. I'm excited to see John Bradley as the new head of NDWF, he's got some experience in MT and will find his voice as things move along this session - baptism by fire. It's my expectation that organization's brand will change in the coming seasons as he quickly does his recruiting and revamping.

In the end, posting here and on FB, no matter how good it might make us feel, doesn't change things. If you haven't emailed your senators yet - please do so! If anyone is interested in joining this proposed group of sportsmen to open a dialog with landowners please message me.
 


PrairieGhost

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To Nick and Mark, you two were in very poor company today. These 6 do not represent the average ND sportsmen. They represent the ND wildlife federation, wildlife society and ducks unlimited. federal controlled opposition orgs.
Not everyone who has a different opinion than yours deserves the reputation you try to pin on them Fritz. Why do you always try do damage to reputations to have your way? Most of the older biologists I know went into the profession because they loved to hunt and fish. They went into the profession not only for habitat and animals, but for what they could do for their fellow sportsmen. Real sportsmen have a common bond and respect for each other.
 
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Fritz the Cat

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What do you mean MAYBE?!? ;:;rofl;:;rofl;:;rofl I'm always on 11, which here in middle age is still about 9.5. LOL. Mark's NDSU example was perfect and he was an excellent sportsman-speaker!

While I disagree with your points against these individuals, as we all carry baggage, and do our best with it, and they are no less sportsmen. I do agree with you that we need more sportsmen - NEW SPORTSMEN - at the microphone, ones that have not spoken up before. We need a new, modern coalition not just for this issue, but to face the many new challenges that are arising. I'm excited to see John Bradley as the new head of NDWF, he's got some experience in MT and will find his voice as things move along this session - baptism by fire. It's my expectation that organization's brand will change in the coming seasons as he quickly does his recruiting and revamping.

In the end, posting here and on FB, no matter how good it might make us feel, doesn't change things. If you haven't emailed your senators yet - please do so! If anyone is interested in joining this proposed group of sportsmen to open a dialog with landowners please message me.

Hol-lee-shit

How many community organizers are going to be sent here from Montana? Land Tawney (Montana Wildlife Federation) used to drive over here and kicked off the fair chase wars. David Pauley (regional director for the Humane Society of the United States) used to drive over here from Montana to back up those fair chase wars. Then Dave Dittloff (national wildlife federation) used to drive over here kicking off the 5% oil revenue rip off initiated measure.

And now John Bradley is from the Montana Wildlife Federation. About 17% of their membership actually reside in Montana. The rest are activists from elsewhere.

Nick, you say it is your expectation John Bradley will change the NDWF brand and quickly do some recruiting. Who is paying his salary? Community organizers don't do it out of their own pocket.
 

Meelosh

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Nick,

you did a good job. Maybe a little forceful. Everyone got a kick out of you being a lawyer and former prosecutor. Mark Mazahari did a great job. Great speaker. But you guys should have brought some REAL sportsmen.

1. Dick Monson...sponsor of the fair chase ballot measure 2008 and 2010
2. Mike McEnroe..retired federal USFWS lobbyist for the wildlife society

These two elitist sportsmen took responsibility for accepting the $150,000 dollars from the Humane Society of the U.S. to fund their fair chase campaign.

3. Lloyd Jones.....head of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service. He was a sponsor of the fair chase initiative and was caught violating the Hatch Act. It is illegal to involve or give a position for the USFWS in a States rights issue. Lloyd recently retired. It is OK to testify like he did today on his "own" behalf. When he introduced himself as Lloyd Jones, did he mention he worked for the USFWS? I can't remember. If he did he should have been offering neutral testimony, not opposition.

4. Gary Masching.. sponsor of the fair chase measure. Too bad fishingbuddy threads are gone. There used to be one WHO THE HELL IS GARY MASCHING? His testimony didn't help today. Too, in your face.

5. Bill Helpfry……...Bowhunters Association. Bill was in the fair chase folly boiler rooms and knew the shit storm that was coming back when. He tried to involve the Bowhunters but they declined. Today, his testimony didn't help. The Senators kind of went after him. He contradicted himself.

6. Carmen Miller....Ducks Unlimited. Enough said.

To Nick and Mark, you two were in very poor company today. These 6 do not represent the average ND sportsmen. They represent the ND wildlife federation, wildlife society and ducks unlimited. federal controlled opposition orgs.

Today there were four seated in the back wearing hunter orange. The leader was Al Sapa (wildlife society) they are trying to mimic Montanan's who do that.

Terry Steinwand testified neutral. That is the way it is supposed to be. It was mentioned earlier someone figured the Governor told Game and fish to stand down. That is bogus. Government employees are supposed to be neutral. Anyway Steinwand mentioned they had several meetings between sportsmen and landowners. The first went well, the second blew up.

Nick and Mark, if new meetings get underway to possibly amend a more favorable outcome to all, might I suggest finding some REAL sportsmen.


I’m really glad you made this little write up Fritz. Especially the part where you left yourself off the side representing sportsmen. That speaks volumes. Makes every other conversation with you really easy.
 

PrairieGhost

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My parents were Farm Bureau, but they have some radicals and Fritz is radical Farm Bureau and anti conservation if it isn't his own land. Some people implement conservation for the sake of animals and fellow hunters, but outfitters implement conservation only for their profit. To us it's an hunting is an American tradition that we cherish and hope to pass on, but to outfitters it's a business and a resource to be exploited. I watch these television shows where they talk about their friends coming to hunt. Sure friends who pay $4000 for a hunt. The less public land the less competition to outfitters. Follow the money.
Fritz: this time you, PETA and HSUS are in bed together. They are licking their chops at the idea of so many hunters hanging up those nasty guns of theirs. Congrats
 
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ndlongshot

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ducks unlimited. federal controlled opposition orgs.

What freaking conspiracy tinfoil hat koolaid are you drinking man? I gotta get me some of that! Fed controlled opposition org? Haha. Like our old friend used to say. "Credibility!"

Start repeating BS and overtime no one will take you seriously. You are on that path.
 


eyexer

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I think this bill will be defeated this year but after this year who knows. If it's defeated we need to bond together and bring an initiated measure to the ballot box in 2020 to end this bullshit. So if this passes let's get our heads together and get the ball rolling on the measure.
 

Obi-Wan

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Nick,

you did a good job. Maybe a little forceful. Everyone got a kick out of you being a lawyer and former prosecutor. Mark Mazahari did a great job. Great speaker. But you guys should have brought some REAL sportsmen.

1. Dick Monson...sponsor of the fair chase ballot measure 2008 and 2010
2. Mike McEnroe..retired federal USFWS lobbyist for the wildlife society

These two elitist sportsmen took responsibility for accepting the $150,000 dollars from the Humane Society of the U.S. to fund their fair chase campaign.

3. Lloyd Jones.....head of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service. He was a sponsor of the fair chase initiative and was caught violating the Hatch Act. It is illegal to involve or give a position for the USFWS in a States rights issue. Lloyd recently retired. It is OK to testify like he did today on his "own" behalf. When he introduced himself as Lloyd Jones, did he mention he worked for the USFWS? I can't remember. If he did he should have been offering neutral testimony, not opposition.

4. Gary Masching.. sponsor of the fair chase measure. Too bad fishingbuddy threads are gone. There used to be one WHO THE HELL IS GARY MASCHING? His testimony didn't help today. Too, in your face.

5. Bill Helpfry……...Bowhunters Association. Bill was in the fair chase folly boiler rooms and knew the shit storm that was coming back when. He tried to involve the Bowhunters but they declined. Today, his testimony didn't help. The Senators kind of went after him. He contradicted himself.

6. Carmen Miller....Ducks Unlimited. Enough said.

To Nick and Mark, you two were in very poor company today. These 6 do not represent the average ND sportsmen. They represent the ND wildlife federation, wildlife society and ducks unlimited. federal controlled opposition orgs.

Today there were four seated in the back wearing hunter orange. The leader was Al Sapa (wildlife society) they are trying to mimic Montanan's who do that.

Terry Steinwand testified neutral. That is the way it is supposed to be. It was mentioned earlier someone figured the Governor told Game and fish to stand down. That is bogus. Government employees are supposed to be neutral. Anyway Steinwand mentioned they had several meetings between sportsmen and landowners. The first went well, the second blew up.

Nick and Mark, if new meetings get underway to possibly amend a more favorable outcome to all, might I suggest finding some REAL sportsmen.
Most avg Joe hunters have 8 to5 jobs with limited vacation and can't get away to spends days at the capital so we need guys like this to speak for us.
 

ndlongshot

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If this passes, next session public ROW will be opened for public hunting and no longer controlled by adjacent landowner.
 

Davey Crockett

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My parents were Farm Bureau, but they have some radicals and Fritz is radical Farm Bureau and anti conservation if it isn't his own land. Some people implement conservation for the sake of animals and fellow hunters, but outfitters implement conservation only for their profit. To us it's an hunting is an American tradition that we cherish and hope to pass on, but to outfitters it's a business and a resource to be exploited. I watch these television shows where they talk about their friends coming to hunt. Sure friends who pay $4000 for a hunt. The less public land the less competition to outfitters. Follow the money.
Fritz: this time you, PETA and HSUS are in bed together. They are licking their chops at the idea of so many hunters hanging up those nasty guns of theirs. Congrats



You need to get over yourself and quit lumping all outfitters in your same group that you do over and over. You are getting so sickening that I can't stand it, Like Stagnant water . Tell me what you do for conservation and on how many acres .
 


BBQBluesMan

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Fritz, you have said you are against this kind of bill. But are you really? Did you contact your reps and the Ag committee in opposition of this bill? You definitely didn’t testify. And you may not care for the people that testified in opposition yesterday. That’s fine, but you know what they definitely have sportsman’s interests in mind. Have you ever had a cordial conversation with any of them? They are actually pretty good people, I don’t know them all, but have visited with a few of them previously. And just because there weren’t more average sportsmen there testifying, doesn’t mean people didn’t take the time to write an email, submit written testimony, or make a call. It’s just not always feasible to take a day off to attend a legislative hearing for those that have 8-5 jobs. This hearing lasted from 8:30 to noon and again from 2:00 to 3:00. Almost 5 hours!

Sportsmen have voiced their opinions and need to keep at it as the Ag committee mulls this over. They mentioned at the end of the hearing for people to think all of the testimony over and contact them with any further ideas/solutions.

I ended up taking some leave yesterday to attend the hearing. The room was packed. There were good arguments on both sides. Fritz, you didn’t take the time to discuss any of the folks that testified in support of the bill. Senator Unruh and Representative Schmidt, who have supported this bill the last go round. Representative Schmidt wants to transfer public lands that were purchased back to original heirs. Daryl Lies, president of ND Farm Bureau. Enough said. Julie Ellingson, vice president of ND stocksmen association. Julie is a good person. Just don’t agree with her stance on this issue. There were some good testimonies given by farmers/ranchers. Again, just don’t agree with their arguments, this bill won’t fix what they think it will fix. And then there was Durant Schiermeister. Does that name ring a bell to anyone? He is a character. Doesn’t care too much for hunters or fisherman for that matter.

The big take away from what I gathered at the hearing is that this has been an issue for a very long time and isn’t going anywhere. If it passes, there will be retaliation legislation at the next session. If fails, it will be back at the next session. There needs to be some middle ground that both sides can get to so that a majority of each side can be satisfied. This bill is not the solution. Senator Klein has his mind made up, he likes the bill as written.
 
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Meelosh

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Ugly Dogs

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Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the farm bureau on record as being against publicly owned land?
 


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