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    American Prairie Preserve

    Have you guys heard of this place? I find it pretty fascinating.

    https://www.americanprairie.org/

    There is a book out there (admittedly I haven't read it yet but is on my list and nearing the top) called "American Serengeti" by Dan Flores. In this book, it kind of describes what the organization is trying to do. Might have to plan a trip next summer to go check the place out.

    Also, Vollmer, can we get a "conservation" topic forum option?

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    I have mentioned this in the past and shared links to it. There is a bit of a "Paul Harvey Rest of the Story" beyond what they share.

    American Prairie Reserve

    Today, American Prairie Reserve is a freestanding Montana-based nonprofit that started to assemble land in 2004. Our main focus is to purchase and permanently hold title to private lands

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    Last edited by gst; 01-10-2018 at 05:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gst View Post
    I have mentioned this in the past and shared links to it. There is a bit of a "Paul Harvey Rest of the Story" beyond what they share.

    American Prairie Reserve

    Today, American Prairie Reserve is a freestanding Montana-based nonprofit that started to assemble land in 2004. Our main focus is to purchase and permanently hold title to private lands
    My fault,haven't read the material. Question arises for me as "What is the difference between this and DU?" Some of them are good but not so good when they take private land out of the tax base because the land is owned by a non-profit. Not good when land that used to support a family is no longer a part of that formula. Things are not always as they appear.

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    It’s willing private sellers selling to willing private buyers. I’m sure they still pay property tax. Why do we, as people that use renewable resources the most, so against innovative conservation? It would have been amazing to live here prior to colonization. Their goal is to bring a little piece of that back.

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    managing a land for the purpose of bringing the habitat back to pre-settlement is good in some cases but bad in others. For example the feds adopted this management style to North Dakota's federal refuges decades ago. Through prescribed burns they wanted to eradicate all trees, shrubs and brush from the refuges and leave only grasses. The feds have done this to Lost Wood Refuge which is located in NW ND. They successfully eradicated at least 50% of the trees, shrubs and brush. As a result they were also successful in reducing non-migrating wildlife populations drastically including deer and grouse. It is a shame what they have done to that place. Remember people open grass prairie can not sustain many wintering animals. In ND you need trees, shrubs and bushes for animals to survive winters. You have to use some common sense and use land management practices that enhance wildlife habitat and their ability to survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Retired Educator View Post
    My fault,haven't read the material. Question arises for me as "What is the difference between this and DU?" Some of them are good but not so good when they take private land out of the tax base because the land is owned by a non-profit. Not good when land that used to support a family is no longer a part of that formula. Things are not always as they appear.
    In some ways this is not a lot different than DU in that it goes directly to the ideology of a few controlling the funds as to what is or what is not allowed on these lands.

    https://www.americanprairie.org/prof...oard-directors

    Now many of these people look like avid hunters? Do a bit of research into the background of their "causes".

    Remember here these will be privately owned lands that once enough has been purchased to satisfy their goals, management plans including hunting and public access can be limited or ended completely. So one needs to look beyond the public affairs statements as to where and who the funding is coming from. I would have to look again to be sure, but in the case of this preserve, a great deal of the funding (and influence) comes from outside this country. Combine that with some of the ideologies of the family trusts funding it and it may not be all that it is being made out to be as it relates to public hunting.

    "Well-known business people from across the country have bought into the vision of saving America's prairie and are backing it with big donations with contributions coming from individuals and foundations in all 50 states, including Montana, in addition to 12 countries."

    It will be interesting to see how the BLM "works" with this entity given what thy are trying to do and given the BLM's history of limiting grazing for cattle and sheep.

    A public, 13,075-acre grazing allotment owned by the Bureau of Land Management, called Flat Creek, was tied to the Holzey ranch purchase and is now leased by APR. APR has applied to change the class of livestock so bison can graze on the Flat Creek Allotment. It's also seeking a change to year-round grazing from the current May 1-to-Nov. 15 season. The requests have spurred comments from 140 people, with 95 opposed to the changes, which is an unusually high number of comments for a grazing allotment change, BLM spokesman Jonathan Moor said.

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    Last edited by gst; 01-10-2018 at 07:22 PM.

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    The lands they purchase are already privately owned lands that can (likely) limit or cut off access. That is a straw man argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    It’s willing private sellers selling to willing private buyers.
    So under that ideal should I be able to sell my land to a foreign national from Iran?

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    Just read about it in Steven Rinella’s book “American Buffalo”. Good read. Not sure how I feel about the APP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    The lands they purchase are already privately owned lands that can (likely) limit or cut off access. That is a straw man argument.
    It is not being used as a "strawman argument" or any other "argument", it is merely a comment as it relates to their publicity statements of these lands being "open" to public hunting. Have you done much research into those that control/provide the funding of this preserve?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gst View Post
    So under that ideal should I be able to sell my land to a foreign national from Iran?
    So you only believe in private property rights when it suits your own purposes?

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    Based on the historical outcomes of hunting access when large landholding individuals or groups see the opportunity to exercise restrictions and a review of their directors publications, this has the distinct smell of the anti-hunting movement. I'll refrain from supporting this effort.

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    I understand the cynicism KDM and please know that I highly respect your opinion. When you talk, I listen. I can’t help but notice though that this property isn’t all that far from another operation that buys a shit ton of land and doesn’t let anyone access it. They also attempt to buy certain parcels with the lone goal of eliminating access to public land. Since I can’t afford to buy any of it myself, I’ll put my faith in those that have actually put land into Block management and allow public access.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    So you only believe in private property rights when it suits your own purposes?
    Try not to go down that path, we have a couple on here that do that already.

    I actually support the ability to limit purchases and sales based on their impacts. ( cities do this frequently thru usage permits..would you like your neighbor to be able to sell to Walmart to build a shooping center 50 feet from your house?)

    I have stated previously that property rights are not absolute. So for me it comes down to do the benefits outweigh what the costs are. When nonprofits that are not taxed on the millions they receive start to outbid private folks for property that is used ot create the income they have to bid.........combine that with idealistic agendas funded by those millions.........I simply think one has to be careful in what they support.

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    I’m idealistic about wildlife and conservation. I wish I had millions to support that cause. We are not running out of places to put roads. We are not running out of places to graze cows. We are not running out of places to plant corn. We are running out of places that are wild.

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    Thanks for the compliment Ghost. Block management is completely different than this project. Block management was designed with the express purpose of providing hunting access. If this group was to put their land into block management and have limitations on the number of hunters like many other block management parcels I would sing a completely different tune. This project states they want to increase wildlife populations, but with little to no mention of utilizing these population increases. They don't allow predator hunting on their lands and only walk in or horse access for archery deer and only youth rifle hunts. No Elk. Interesting!!! Their director published several papers on wolf reintroduction, mountain lion conservation, bison reintroduction and protection, some predator evaluations, some livestock papers that were trying to get rid of cattle and replace with bison, as well as other biodiversity papers which highlight natural balances without human interventions or actions. Once this group has purchased the lands between these public parcels, I have a strong suspicion hunting will be abolished. Not to mention I know some Montana folks that DESPISE this project. I just don't think this has anything to do with public access and everything to do with public exclusion.

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    I read somewhere that some of it is in Block management. I’ll try to find it. There are some Montanans that despise federally managed public land too. I’ve given up on making everyone happy. I’ll support what feels right to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    I’m idealistic about wildlife and conservation. I wish I had millions to support that cause. We are not running out of places to put roads. We are not running out of places to graze cows. We are not running out of places to plant corn. We are running out of places that are wild.
    https://fee.org/articles/running-out...cultural-land/

    "running out"?? maybe not to that degree yet but don;t think it is not disappearing. One report claims just shy of 10 acres of arable lands a minute.

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    We grow more food with less land than we ever have. Ag producers are VERY proud of that fact. As an Ag worker, I am proud of that fact. It’s ok to lose some land to conservation



    K, this was on Wikipedia, so it would have to be verified but APR does participate in Block Management and has granted two easements to MT FWP. No info on acreage. I’d have to dig in to it more.

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    Indeed ag does more with less, that does not change the fact that there is less.

    I have likely invested more dollars out of my own pocket in conservation and wildlife habitat than the average person so understand I am not against "conservation".

    Having ANY entity controlling 3.5 million acres is why our fore fathers moved here. And make no doubt about it, if this nonprofit has enough dollars they will begin to "control" those Federal lands they butt up against and connect. Lets see what the BLM does with their "request".

    Honest question Ghost have you done any background on those controlling the funds?

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