SB 2315 - Database Study Comm Mtg 8/26

njsimonson

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2015
Posts
274
Likes
3
Points
115
Location
Capital City, ND
I know you're all bored waiting for hunting to start...so HERE WE GO AGAIN!

The committee to keep SB 2315 alive until next session through the land access ("database") interim study will be meeting for the first time at 10 am on Mon. Aug. 26 in the Roughrider Room at the Capitol in Bismarck. There's 45 minutes allotted for public comment from 1:40 to 2:25pm, so if you have a late lunch and want to weigh in, there's an opening.

To paraphrase Dr. Ian Malcolm from Jurassic Park, it seems from the agenda like the committee is already looking at whether or not they CAN make a database, as opposed to if they SHOULD make it (or if it is even necessary). I think the outcome of SB 2315 in the legislature showed, via vote, that they SHOULDN'T. But far be it from a defeat on the floor to stop a legislator from helping out the special interests that keep getting him elected.

The meeting agenda is below. Draw your own conclusions. The proceedings are open to the public. Remember that the elected officials on the committee voted FOR the posting of all lands and the removal of millions of acres of public access to ND hunters in the form of unposted lands. I'll let you know more as I do.

2315CommteeMtg826 copy.jpg
 


fireone

★★★★★ Legendary Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Posts
771
Likes
46
Points
151
So did anybody make it to the hearing Monday and have a report?
 

Pheasant 54

★★★ Legendary Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Posts
407
Likes
124
Points
145
I did not , but did you see where Mr Steinwand told them they have about 65 trespass vios a year with 132,000 license holders ? Some of the news outlets are leaving that little tidbit out .

Horrible problem that needs to be corrected by posting all land- not
 

Duckslayer100

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Posts
4,611
Likes
189
Points
293
Location
ND's Flatter Half
What I want to know is the number of trespass violations during hunting seasons compared to trespass violations over the entire year. THAT would be telling, since this apparently is such a monumental problem that we have to completely upend the entire system in order to get a handle on it.

My thought is that if there were only 65 violations across the entire state, there must be, what, another couple THOUSAND outside hunting season to make this even worth a discussion?

Right? Right?!?!
 

Migrator Man

★★★★★ Legendary Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Posts
3,961
Likes
22
Points
226
This committee is a farce before it had even started its first meeting. None of the legislators are trying to address the problem in a productive way and all have deep seeded intentions that won’t be swayed. Time to vote them out before we have to rehash this issue in 2 years. The committee should be focused on how to make it easier to prosecute trespassers which would actually deter the problem.

- - - Updated - - -

What I want to know is the number of trespass violations during hunting seasons compared to trespass violations over the entire year. THAT would be telling, since this apparently is such a monumental problem that we have to completely upend the entire system in order to get a handle on it.

My thought is that if there were only 65 violations across the entire state, there must be, what, another couple THOUSAND outside hunting season to make this even worth a discussion?

Right? Right?!?!

65 violations are probably only the cases that the G and F wardens were involved in. The problem isn’t hunters, it is the general public criminals. Changing the law to automatically posted will only restrict access and kick off law abiding sportsmen. Trespassing may even go up if some hunters turn to the dark side because they have no land to hunt.
 


pointer

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Posts
1,163
Likes
139
Points
228
Location
south central nd
If this would pass imagine a person trying ask permission on 1786 square miles of land in just one unit just for deer, that alone is stupid , most of the land so far is unposted in my deer hunting unit, even tho 99. 9 percent would not mind if you shot a coyote on their land
 

Duckslayer100

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Posts
4,611
Likes
189
Points
293
Location
ND's Flatter Half
yep - violations will go up

which is why, as a landowner, I loathe it

I honestly believe this will be a landowner's worst nightmare.

Trespassing will get worse.

Think about it this way: There are, what, 12 wardens for the entire state of North Dakota? Each one is charged with covering hundreds of square miles of land. Landowners must police themselves (i.e. trail cams, posted signs, playing nice with the neighbors so you have each others' backs, etc.). Period.

LEO isn't that much better equipped out in the boonies (although as KDM is quick to point out, if you're truly dealing with criminal trespass, don't bother with the G&F -- call the sheriff).

SO, hypothetically, in 2022 or whatever this trespass law goes into effect and an imperfect, definitely bugged, and nearly worthless electronic database in enacted. The guys and gals who were ALREADY following the letter of the law (or even doing one better and calling for permission on land that wasn't even posted) are now forced to navigate a technological Pandora's box. In the meantime, outdoordsy folks who maybe were middle of the road with what was legally Ok (well, it's Posted I guess, but the guy didn't sign his name so we can hunt it) now might just say F it when the database whatchamajigger doesn't work just right, and plead ignorance if they get caught.

And the guys who were ALREADY breaking the law by trespassing will STILL break the law.

So what, pray tell, is this circus act going to solve?

Not. A. God. Damned. Thing.
 

guywhofishes

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Posts
28,637
Likes
3,845
Points
948
Location
Faaargo, ND
and the landowners will be even more pissed off than before

- - - Updated - - -

and will ask their reps to pass more laws to fix the shitty laws

and the circle of decline for America spirals ever closer to nirvana (Europe)

- - - Updated - - -

let's just ban hunting/foraging/fishing/hiking/birdwatching

- - - Updated - - -

(for non-landowners)
 


Captain Ahab

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Posts
10,528
Likes
442
Points
418
Location
Timbuktu
This is a big shit sandwich for pretty much everybody except the few that view it as a stepping stone to an even bigger power grab.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry Columbo, I kinda just summed up what you said.

- - - Updated - - -

BTW, just one more thing...
 

guywhofishes

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Posts
28,637
Likes
3,845
Points
948
Location
Faaargo, ND
This is a big shit sandwich for pretty much everybody except the few that view it as a stepping stone to an even bigger power grab.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry Columbo, I kinda just summed up what you said.

- - - Updated - - -

BTW, just one more thing...

ha ha... you're right though - only the few who are benefiting politically will actually benefit

the majority of landowners (the ones who care about trespassing) will actually see an increase in problems

those who don't care will just continue to not care

that's what's nuts... people of the land ("salt of the earth"), who have had the gov't lie to them for decades (and drive them crazy with their laws/regulations) actually trust the gov't to solve a complex human behavior problem with new "laws"????

how are those same reps/gov't doing with the meth/opioid problem out in the rural communities?... you know, that problem EVERYONE AGREES IS A PRIORITY?????

- - - Updated - - -

is there even a committee to study THAT problem in the off season???
 

KDM

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Posts
9,650
Likes
1,582
Points
563
Location
Valley City
This steaming pile of BS has nothing to do with trespassing. It is and will forever be, an anti hunting initiative. The douche nozzles that are pushing this can deny it all they want, but it is totally focused on stopping hunters from hunting. Call it what it is.
 

guywhofishes

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Posts
28,637
Likes
3,845
Points
948
Location
Faaargo, ND
This steaming pile of BS has nothing to do with trespassing. It is and will forever be, an anti hunting initiative. The douche nozzles that are pushing this can deny it all they want, but it is totally focused on stopping hunters from hunting. Call it what it is.

"Goehring said he'd like a "simple" solution from the committee's work as other members questioned what access could exist for hikers, bird watchers and berry pickers and if an app could designate game species allowed for hunting on private lands."We can have a big wish list, but if it really comes down to just access for hunters, maybe we just need to stay on point," Goehring said."

https://www.agweek.com/news/governm...dakotas-contentious-trespass-bill-study-stage
 

Uncle Jimbo

★★★★ Legendary Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2016
Posts
464
Likes
6
Points
118
Location
ND
I watched a lot of testimony by ND Legislators during the last session. The number of legislators who would forget or fumble to turn on their microphone before speaking was astounding to me. Now some of those same people are charged with creating an app!?!? What could possibly go wrong?
 


Sluggo

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 14, 2015
Posts
2,574
Likes
415
Points
333
Location
Bismarck
I listened to the audio from the meeting. My observations:
1. Missing in the room was the voice of the hunter that does not and has not ever owned land.
2. They are certain that they need to do something but have no idea what that something is, what it costs or what it does.
3. Nobody wants to take ownership of the thing.
4. They are a LOOOOOONGGGGG ways away from actually implementing anything.
 

njsimonson

Founding Member
Founding Member
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 17, 2015
Posts
274
Likes
3
Points
115
Location
Capital City, ND
There were 912 criminal trespass charges in ND in 2018. SOURCE: https://attorneygeneral.nd.gov/sites/ag/files/documents/2018-CrimeReport.pdf. Of those, 720 occurred within the city limits of Bismarck, Fargo, Grand Forks and Minot and were handled by their police departments. A good chunk of the remaining 192 were handled by police departments in smaller towns, meaning that criminal trespass, in and of itself, is a predominantly urban/in-town problem in North Dakota, and, since no one can hunt in city limits, is an act predominantly committed by NON-HUNTERS in the state.

Criminal trespass cited by G&F in 2018 was a mere 27 OCCURRENCES. Hunting on posted land without permission was just 54 violations. Source: https://gf.nd.gov/news/2983 (I don't know where the number 65 comes from).

From second-hand reports in my conversations this week with those in attendance, there were good call-outs by the sportsmen's representatives regarding loosening the strings on access, including the creation of WMAs, WPAs and other public lands which are tied up with special interest groups having veto power on that particular land transfer group in NDCC Ch. 10-6 for any parcel that comes before them - as this committee isn't just about "the database" it's also about "access" in this state and should be studying that as well.

On that topic, it should be difficult for the special interests to scream "property rights" when referencing 2315, this committee and whatever might come after it when 1) requiring people to post their land as "open" or enter it in a database restricts the right of property owners equally, just on the opposite side of the coin, and 2) that somehow a magic government/special interest board gets the power to limit the free transfer of land in a capitalist society where dollars (and other interests, such as leaving a legacy, opening hunting, etc.) drive the free market. This was also brought up by sportsman's reps at the first meeting.

What will really need to happen in 2021 is the removal of the special interest groups from this section of the code: https://www.legis.nd.gov/cencode/t10c06-1.pdf, which places unreasonable review restrictions on the creation of public lands through NGO-transfer to the G&F. It'll be interesting to see if the primarily-Republican legislature will get behind free-market economies and amend this highly-restrictive code, by removing private groups having influence over private individuals' decisions, which ultimately hurts those landowners looking to transfer lands for reasons other than money.
 
Last edited:

Sluggo

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 14, 2015
Posts
2,574
Likes
415
Points
333
Location
Bismarck
There were 912 criminal trespass charges in ND in 2018.

I got the impression that no one in that meeting cares how many trespass violations there were. Terry S. did a nice job of pointing out that the number is low and that the hunters in ND are very ethical and not necessarily the violators. But the head dude quickly corrected him and said that every landowner has a trespass story so 100% of the landowners have been violated at one time or another.

Reading between the lines, I think they think that not having to pound a sign into the ground and making it unlawful to access without permission by default will somehow curb things. I am not convinced and I would like to see someone state exactly what the problem is that they are trying to solve. I think if you asked each committee member, you would get a different response from each one.
 

pointer

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Posts
1,163
Likes
139
Points
228
Location
south central nd
In talking to the local farmers in the area around here is the overwhelming amount of piss offs has been committed by out-of-staters, (Not my asumpumption) , fact , so where do do go from here I do not know , but it sucks for us locals
 

Obi-Wan

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 15, 2015
Posts
7,496
Likes
2,525
Points
678
Location
Bismarck
This steaming pile of BS has nothing to do with trespassing. It is and will forever be, an anti hunting initiative. The douche nozzles that are pushing this can deny it all they want, but it is totally focused on stopping hunters from hunting. Call it what it is.

Gabe - I can't post on hunting website because I am an arrogant ass and get kicked off - Thompson is trolling this site and quoting you on North Dakota lockout page on Facebook.
 


Recent Posts

Friends of NDA

Top Posters of the Month

  • This month: 161
  • This month: 136
  • This month: 121
  • This month: 110
  • This month: 105
  • This month: 87
  • This month: 84
  • This month: 79
  • This month: 76
  • This month: 76
Top Bottom