Started or finished dog?

NDSportsman · Mar 5, 2018

So I lost my hunting buddy last October and am starting the search for a new one. Can't see myself bird hunting without a dog again, it's just not the same. My old Mack was a rescued black lab that adopted me and taught me more than I ever taught him. I've been checking out the rescue places but labs are hard to come by and get adopted pretty fast so haven't had much luck that route.

I'm thinking of going with a started or finished dog since I'm not sure I can handle the puppy stage again and just don't have enough time to dedicate to training. Wondering what everyone's experience has been going this route, what to look out for, maybe some leads on trainers with dogs available. Looking mainly for a lab and would like to stay within ND/SD/MN area but I'm open to other options. TIA

bigv · Mar 5, 2018

A lot depends on how much you're willing to spend. A finished dog can be thousands. A started will usually run a couple thousand. So in these parts you're looking at 2k to around 4-5k. Much more in other areas. So I guess you'll need to figure price range first. Good luck...pup/dog shopping is fun!

Allen · Mar 5, 2018

You can always pick the pup you want and then seek out trainers.

I took my GSP to a trainer for many of the same reasons listed. He is fair at his job now, and just needs me to find him more birds to refine his style.

luvcatchingbass · Mar 5, 2018

Our lab Sadie is 7 now and next year we will be getting another chocolate lab from the same breeder. They do not focus on pure hunting but aim to have great family dogs that will hunt. I did all the training on Sadie not knowing anything about birds really, grew up with cattle blue healers, and I can say that I have got what I put in and most of the deficiencies I see reflect my choices. For me I look forward to the challenge again and seeing if I actually learned anything myself. One thing to remember is obedience obedience obedience, Sadie has the instincts but just needed the field time and experience to get better as it was natural to them while obedience is not . A book from Brad Dokken actually was really helpful even though it was more waterfowl but the same principles seemed to work for upland to me.
Good Luck!

TRLguy · Apr 6, 2018

If you are still looking for a started dog, I may be able to help you out. Just let me know.

Kentucky Windage · Apr 6, 2018

TRLguy said:
If you are still looking for a started dog, I may be able to help you out. Just let me know.

Is this Carson Daly? It's an honor......

snow · Apr 6, 2018

tough spot for any bird hunter to be in no "bird dog" been there,like you I looked into rescue pup's,in my case was goldens,worse thing was all the rescue retrievers listed had ailments or just old and gray folks dropped off sad deal,that fall hunted some but not near as much,these days I enjoy watching my boy work for pheasants or field retrieve's during waterfowl season,scratch out a few birds is great but pure enjoyment to watch the boy doing his thing is special.

NDSportsman · Apr 6, 2018

TRLguy said:
If you are still looking for a started dog, I may be able to help you out. Just let me know.

Thanks but I just adopted a 2 year old lab last week. I will probably be looking for a trainer though since this guy doesn't have much interest in retrieving. Never seen a lab that didn't have a hard instinct to retrieve before. He appears to have some hunting instinct.

DDRAHT · Apr 6, 2018

Scott Snyder in Buchanan, ND breeds labs and also trains hunting dogs. As of last fall I think he still had pups from a litter he bred and was then working with. I believe he goes by Black Hawk Kennel. Worth a call. 701-251-2261

FishSticks · Apr 6, 2018

I have a lab from Sauk River Retrievers (Oasakis MN) and my parents have 2 from there. Great bird dogs, all point and all really good family dogs. I know they had a few started dogs for sale in the past (asked 2-3k). I totally can understand why people would like get one that is out of the puppy phase but the chaos of the puppy stage makes the reward of a good day in the field that much better.

KDM · Apr 6, 2018

I'm on my FIRST gun dog, Hercules, so my sample size is very small. However, I can't help but think that a large part of becoming a team in the field can be found in those first cognitive months when the bond between a hunter and their dog first begins with just being together. That time when a pup learns who you are and you learn who they are is priceless IMO. I think my relationship with Herc would be severely diminished if I would have denied myself that opportunity. At the time, I didn't realize what was really going on, but now I know. He was training me, just as much as I was training him. I learned his subtleties and the nuances of his actions when he worked the cover, when he looked back, and when he smelled something he liked. Simultaneously, Herc was learning the inflections of my voice, the look in my eye, as well as the details of my hand signals. I do understand that sometimes life's realities don't allow for this and getting a started or finished dog is the best option and I'm sure everything will work out. I just wouldn't want to miss those early steps one bit. Glad you found a partner and I wish you all the best.

3Roosters · Apr 6, 2018

Agree 100% with what KDM said! I am on my 3rd dog and went thru the training process with each of them myself. Just as they forgave me for missing easy shots, I overlooked any weaknesses they may have had. I am not a trainer but did work with each of my dogs....yes I could have done better..and a pro could have probably polished each of them up but I am quite satisfied how each dog turned out over the years. The comraderie between man and mans best friend are life long. They probably wouldn't have won any bird dog field trials but the wife and I enjoyed each of them...and..I am quite sure they thought we were TOP DOGS in their dog mind so that is the only thing that matters.

snow · Apr 9, 2018

Haha oh yes the early stages of having a gun dog,My last two pups would give me the stink eye when I missed,both retrieved the spent shell on missed birds,anyone else have shell retrievers?

Kurtr · Apr 9, 2018

yep my black lab was a shell getting machine when he was a pup.

RNinND · Apr 9, 2018

I was in a similar scenario a few years back and didn't want to deal with the puppy thing. Wanted to find a dog that had certain characteristics and was trained. I learned of High Caliber Labs just south of Sioux Falls and found my perfect match there. She was "started" which was all I needed. The only thing I needed to do was potty train her which took a few days. It was very expensive but she was worth every penny and I will do it again for my next one. If you go the started route I would recommend them.

shorthairsrus · Apr 9, 2018

9 weeks - i recd both of my shorthairs --- I would not have done it any different -- ---- they are started imo -- the intel is breeded into them.

Someone mention potty training -- i didnt try it as the old lady would of bitched with paw prints on the toilet. you know a shorthair they dont like to flush!

Anyway -- socialism in shorthair is really important.

Duckslayer100 · Apr 9, 2018

I think if you're getting a started dog, you have to have some SERIOUS confidence in who you're buying it from that it's started to the level that was advertised.

I know personally some breeders and trainers who sell "started" dogs that they've had kenneled for over a year and get out to play fetch and do some nominal OB work. If that's all you want and it's priced fairly, that's one thing. But if I'm spending the money, there's a level I expect a dog to be at.

My advice would be to research hard before committing, and then have the owner run the dog through whatever paces he's sworn to. After that, have yourself do the same thing with the owner present. You can see how the dog responds, and the current owner might give you some pointers on how to handle the dog. Believe it or not, there are a lot of subtle nuances to training that dogs pick up on. Your voice inflection, body stance, hand movements and even demeanor can greatly impact how a dog responds to you versus the person who trained it.

That's one of the biggest reasons I really push for folks to try to train their own dogs or, at the very least, visit with a trainer weekly to "step in" and see what's been taught. Because believe it or not, the owners need the training just as much, if not more, than the dogs. The words that make my skin crawl from dog owners after getting their hound back from a trainer are, "man, I spent beaucoup bucks and had Rex at the trainer for three months and he can't do shit!"

I always question if that's actually because the trainer didn't do justice, or the owner just doesn't know his way around a dog.

( deleted account ) · Apr 10, 2018

KDM hit the nail squarely on the head! Until I retired, I never had time to watch a pup grow up and be trained as a team by the pup! Always too busy! A dog with strong genetic hunting drive will soon learns to work with you as a team, though learning and training goes both ways. They will all “find em, flush em, fetch em”, (or the pointer equivalent) but lacking any control or guidance, their usefulness other than a pet and family member can fall in negative territory for hunting.
Like KDM said, having the pup closely grow up with you and learning each other’s nuances goes a long way towards working as a team.

Still, with modern time constraints, having a pro trainer involved is a necessary thing for a lot of busy dog owners.

Started or finished dog?

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