Snakebite vaccine for dogs

Traxion

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So had my dad's lab get hit by a rattlesnake on Friday. Right on the nose, decent size snake. Dog has had the snakebite vaccine since young (she's 4 now). Swelled up a fair bit in the face and neck but really minimal compared to what I had thought. The vet didn't do any antivenom, just anti inflam and stuff to fight infection. She said the snakebite vaccine makes a big difference. I know there isn't much for scientific proof out there on the vaccine and that the snake could have made a dry bite. But for the low cost and seeing it first hand, I'd recommend anyone with a dog in snake country doing it. Now to not have the yips for about 6 months in tall grass......
 


wby257

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I know ranchers out in western N.D. That dont give there dogs any kind of shot and say they never have a problem with snake bit dogs dieing.
 

MSA

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Put the time, and money into rattlesnake avoidance training. The only supporters of this vaccine are the manufacturer, the vets selling it, and the small percent of customers the product "worked" for. From what I can find, even if it does work, it would only work for Western diamondback bites.
 
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Put the time, and money into rattlesnake avoidance training. The only supporters of this vaccine are the manufacturer, the vets selling it, and the small percent of customers the product "worked" for. From what I can find, even if it does work, it would only work for Western diamondback bites.


I can can attest that it definitely APPEARS to me that it at least helps with a western Diamondback bites. My spaniel got nailed on the nose by a diamondback probably just out of hibernation and likeley full of venom, about 10 am. By 5 pm despite a couple units of avtivenom and Iv’s she looked so swollen in her front end that we actually thought they were showing us the wrong dog! By next morning she was pretty well back to normal and had no gangrenous sloughing of necrotic tissue on her muzzle like pictures the internet is full of.
was it the vaccine? The anti Venom? A young healthy dog? Luck? I don’t know. Also we don’t have any way of knowing how “loaded” the snake was, butIMHO every little bit helps, and compared to the cost and family value of a dog it is dirt cheap with minimal if any negative side effects. Not a bad idea to have all the odds on your side, even if arguably the vaccine doesn’t help all that much. The vets recommend it, and if I remember, it isn’t all that expensive, about the same as any other mutt vaccine.
We had done snake avoidance training, too! And Ironically I had rechecked her avoidance 2 days before she got hit with the snake avoidance guy and a defanged diamondback, but she was on the butt of a running quail through desert bitterbrush and got nailed by what the handler calls a “a drive by” which is pure bad luck. The snake instinctively strikes before a running dog has a chance to avoid it.
. I’d sure recommend avoidance training, too! I’ve run into a couple diamondbacks and several prairie rattlers with my dog over the yers and wow, her body language, like MSA says, really lets you know,what is going on. Unmistakeable. I’ve had her indicate SNAKE, and looked and looked in high grass or rockpiles for quite a while,before I’ve found the snake. Every time I see a live rattler on a warm road I take her out on leash and check her memory. She avoids them like crazy!
Best get all the luck on your side you can. Dogs like family members are too valuable to risk. Imho
MSA, do you know anyone who can do avoidance training in this area? I’d bet they’d be busy, especially with thiswebsite’s collection of gun dogs.

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I know ranchers out in western N.D. That dont give there dogs any kind of shot and say they never have a problem with snake bit dogs dieing.

I met a vet from Montana who did recommend vaccine, but said they didn’t stock or use anti venom for prairie rattlers. Said Conservative treatment was usually sufficient, though some got pretty sick, only rarely did they ever die.
A older Rancher friend said that of the dozens of dogs he has had over the years he’s never had one NOT get bit sooner or later, and had never had one die, though some of them had got pretty sick, some unable to drink or a day or so when nailed on the nose. He gives the dogs vaccine with the usual vaccine now, FWIW.
 
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Allen

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The local NAVHDA club in Bismarck imported a fella from MT a few years ago to do a snake avoidance clinic. It was pretty damn popular, with everyone but the dogs. I'd do it again if anyone can tell me when and where it's being held.
 


MSA

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I used to collect and supply the rattlesnakes for avoidance training in Idaho and Nevada many years ago. I'd place them in double cages out in the tall grass, when the dogs got close, the owners would zap em. It was a fun gig, but every time out some macho douche bag wanted to tease the snakes or try and shoot em with a pistol or something of that sorts. The hardest part of training the dogs was making sure one of the owners didn't get bit afterwards.

I'm not sure about the whole "defanged" thing. Rattlers have alot of teeth and sometimes multiple fangs. It's waaaay to risky to try n pull teeth from a venomous
snakes head, than just bare minimum handling.

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I've thought about starting an avoidance training program here, but venomous snakes draw too much negative attention.
 

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According to the avoidance guy in Az, you are supposed to be licensed by the Feds to transport vendemos snakes across state lines, or something like that. He had done over 2000 dogs over the years, plus a lot of Gilda monster training. He gave a lecture on the biology and lifestyle of diamondbacks, very interesting talk, including how to and how not to defang rattlers carefully, and so they didn’t grow their fangs back, how to move them, kill them humanely on your lawn ( common in Az) He would use defanged diamondbacks and put them here and there where they couldn’t escape, thendo the avoidance thing.
the final exam was to take your dog for a walk, while he’d sneak a snake under your pickup, then walk your dog back downwind to the pickup! Wow! Those dogs would screech to a stop in a hurry and turn on their snake body language. He said for thorough training you had to make sure the dog saw the snake and moving tail, heard the snake buzz, and smelled the snake, all senses, or the avaidance was less effective. He also used diamondbacks as from a training view they seemed about as generic as possible. He thought some species smelled and affected dogs differently. Also, he said using another snake species, garter, bull, etc. Was worthless, which I believe. My dog absolutely avoids all rattlers, but readily attacks or plays with a bull or garter snake. Shakes them and would probably kill them. She doesn’t treat any snake as a rattler.
You should start avoidance, MSA! Lots of business for a part time/ weekend business. I keep planning to try it with skunk skin/ scent when I get one of those round tuits!
 

MSA

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Nah, no license needed for transport over state lines with venomous. You can buy, sell, and ship venomous snakes from all over the world with the ease of shopping on eBay.

As far as defanging snakes goes, I've heard a million claims of doing it, but never once seen any proof or method accepted by the scientific side of the community. And even if it was possible to remove fangs without regrowth, what about all the other teeth that open you up to venom. Aside from our own safety the bogus practice is also extremely inhumane for the snake, especially since it can no longer eat.

I got too many irons in a fire that ain't burning hot enough as it is. Last thing I need is another hobby or side job.
 

gr8outdoors

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When I was younger n still living on the farm, my dad would give the dog and even cats a shot of penicilan to them. Never had one die.
 

BrokenBackJack

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According to the avoidance guy in Az, you are supposed to be licensed by the Feds to transport vendemos snakes across state lines, or something like that. He had done over 2000 dogs over the years, plus a lot of Gilda monster training. He gave a lecture on the biology and lifestyle of diamondbacks, very interesting talk, including how to and how not to defang rattlers carefully, and so they didn’t grow their fangs back, how to move them, kill them humanely on your lawn ( common in Az) He would use defanged diamondbacks and put them here and there where they couldn’t escape, thendo the avoidance thing.
the final exam was to take your dog for a walk, while he’d sneak a snake under your pickup, then walk your dog back downwind to the pickup! Wow! Those dogs would screech to a stop in a hurry and turn on their snake body language. He said for thorough training you had to make sure the dog saw the snake and moving tail, heard the snake buzz, and smelled the snake, all senses, or the avaidance was less effective. He also used diamondbacks as from a training view they seemed about as generic as possible. He thought some species smelled and affected dogs differently. Also, he said using another snake species, garter, bull, etc. Was worthless, which I believe. My dog absolutely avoids all rattlers, but readily attacks or plays with a bull or garter snake. Shakes them and would probably kill them. She doesn’t treat any snake as a rattler.
You should start avoidance, MSA! Lots of business for a part time/ weekend business. I keep planning to try it with skunk skin/ scent when I get one of those round tuits!

Hate to see a Bull snake killed or harmed as they kill rattlers.
 


snow

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We've lost a few dogs here along the st croix river bluffs from timber rattlers in fall when they mosey into the new neighborhoods sunning themselves on blacktop driveways,not good.This is in hudson wisc which is just east of st paul minn which is odd this far north.
 
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Traxion

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I agree 100% that snake avoidance is a good thing. I also will say that I can't say 100% the vaccine helped. However, for what we have into our pets and how much of a part of the family they are, I feel the vaccine is CHEAP extra insurance if your dog runs into a rattler. I always thought it would be a warm September sharptail hunt that we would deal with the situation, not a mid June joyride. Dog is doing well!
 

Allen

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Hate to see a Bull snake killed or harmed as they kill rattlers.


Right! I was down at Beaver several weeks ago. Saw a few really large bullsnakes patrolling the shoreline.


One of the poor bastards got caught by what i can only refer to as the local hillbilly reps. Sure enough they killed it for no damn reason and then stood around taking pics with the dead snake. Idiots, while I have no great love for snakes...that poor bastard had done nothing wrong that I am aware of. Rather they saw it and hunted it down, only to kill it and toss it into the weeds. Fucksticks...
 

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I suppose legally you can kill any snake but I always wonder why people wantonly do it?!? Allen, ask a redneck type why and you might get a fist sandwich for your trouble, or worse. Different if you want the snakeskin for a purpose, or Some good reason to eradicate it. Same with hog nosed snakes, often mistaken for rattlers.
 


MSA

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I equate killing a bullsnake for no reason to killing a puppy. As far as ND animals go, you don't get more harmless and beneficial than a bullsnake.

Many states are finally passing laws against killing snakes.
 

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I equate killing a bullsnake for no reason to killing a puppy. As far as ND animals go, you don't get more harmless and beneficial than a bullsnake.

Many states are finally passing laws against killing snakes.

Imcarry a padded grabber thing you can buy anywhere in my UTV and grab bull snakes I see on the road and move them a mile or so off,the road. Kind,of,fun,,though once in a while I,swear,the same snake gets back to the warm road. I’ve thought of marking,them with a spray can of paint to see if it’s the same moved one! Would a,shot,of paint hurt them?
 

MSA

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Easier way is take some quick cell phone pics, no two bullsnake patterns are the same.
 

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I was BS’ ing with a Rancher friend yesterday when my dog did her snake alert body language posture, tail half mast., head partly down, all tensed up, sort of an oddball point though she’s a flusher. We looked in the grass where my dog was indicating, and sure enough, a small rattler. When we humans got close the rattler started buzzing and my friend could hear the rattler, but despite my $6000.00 hearing aids, I could barely hear it till I got really close.
The moral of this story 1) protect your ears when shooting or you’ll end up with lousy hearing like me! 2) not a bad idea to have your dog do avoidance training if available. Not only helps protect the dog but also yourself.
 


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