Beginner reloading question

fly2cast

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 14, 2015
Posts
1,014
Likes
18
Points
191
So my neighbor, bought at an auction, all of the reloading equipment for rifles. He was reloading .243. On a factory box of .243 shells it showed the muzzle velocity over 3000 fps. However, looking at the same weight bullet (80 grain), none of the muzzle velocities were even close, no matter what the powder, from the book. Why is that? I remember back in the days of reloading shotgun shells I could reload shells, according to the specs in the book, that were much faster than the factory shells.

Other question is, why with some powder you can go up to say 42 grains and have a fast muzzle velocity but with other powders you can only go to 39 grains and have a slower velocity?
 


Kurtr

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Posts
18,239
Likes
1,971
Points
648
Location
Mobridge,Sd
With powders it is different burn rates. And what it says on the box is out of one test gun. The factory ammo I have shot over chrony has been 200fps slower in general
 

Enslow

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 27, 2015
Posts
5,088
Likes
72
Points
298
So you chronographed test loads and the velocities were not on par with the book numbers?
 

Tymurrey

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 19, 2015
Posts
352
Likes
92
Points
175
Are you sure you were reading the reloading data correctly, quick search on hodgdon's website shows multiple loads for the 243 win with 80gr bullets at 3300-3400 fps. Granted those are the max loads and you need to work up to them but theres no reason a 243 can't push 80gr bullets at over 3000 fps with ease. I would recheck what data you are using and go from there, with reloading you need to check and recheck your work.
 

jdinny

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 20, 2015
Posts
2,240
Likes
129
Points
288
kurtr is right some powder will burn faster, some slower. it could have to do with the C.O.A.L or whats called the case of actual length and how deep your seating the bullet into the case. if its inconsistent you will get inconsistent results with shooting.

- - - Updated - - -

you want to measure and make sure you seating the bullets the same depth once you develop that load
 


PrairieGhost

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 15, 2015
Posts
10,327
Likes
682
Points
443
Location
Drifting the high plains
The old ammo exaggerated the velocities. So did the old manuals. Today many of us have chronographs so they can't do that. The new books have cut back on powder charges because they are afraid of liability. Same reason as crappy triggers on new rifles. The last 243 I owned I run 87 gr Hornady hollow points near 3100 fps if I remember right. Not at home so can't check my records.
 

fly2cast

Founding Member
Founding Member
Thread starter
Joined
May 14, 2015
Posts
1,014
Likes
18
Points
191
Well here is the deal. I looked on Nosler.com and they show that you can put in more powder than what this reloading book shows. I think the book is either outdated or being pretty conservative. Plus I believe it's an older book.

We did not chronograph test loads. I'm going strictly to what the ammo box says and what the book says. And as some have mentioned, they may have fudged their numbers a bit or shot under ideal conditions.
 

Kurtr

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Posts
18,239
Likes
1,971
Points
648
Location
Mobridge,Sd
What kind of bullet and what powder do you want to shoot. Dont even bother with what boxes say unless you have a chrony or shoot to distance and verify what the velocity is.
 

fly2cast

Founding Member
Founding Member
Thread starter
Joined
May 14, 2015
Posts
1,014
Likes
18
Points
191
For the .243 he was using 100 grain with H380 powder. Also has IMR 4350 powder but didn't use that.

I should add that he wasn't necessarily trying to reach the muzzle velocity listed on the box but we were wondering why we didn't see anything like that speed in the book. After reading the posts I understand why.
 
Last edited:

USMCDI

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2015
Posts
870
Likes
24
Points
166
Location
Middle of nowhere ND
Twist rate and barrel length have a lot to do with it, I throw that published shit out the window when it comes to reloading. Chrono everything and see what charge, COAL and bullet weight shoots best for your setup and don't look back.
 


Kurtr

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Posts
18,239
Likes
1,971
Points
648
Location
Mobridge,Sd
For the .243 he was using 100 grain with H380 powder. Also has IMR 4350 powder but didn't use that.

I should add that he wasn't necessarily trying to reach the muzzle velocity listed on the box but we were wondering why we didn't see anything like that speed in the book. After reading the posts I understand why.

first post you said 80 grain bullet and now 100 grain in this one makes big difference
 

fly2cast

Founding Member
Founding Member
Thread starter
Joined
May 14, 2015
Posts
1,014
Likes
18
Points
191
Sorry, he is reloading 100 grain but compared 80 grain from box to book because that was the only box that had the muzzle velocity on it.
 

Enslow

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 27, 2015
Posts
5,088
Likes
72
Points
298
Sorry, he is reloading 100 grain but compared 80 grain from box to book because that was the only box that had the muzzle velocity on it.

Oh haha that would explain alot. Good luck with your reloading and learning.
 

espringers

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 18, 2015
Posts
8,173
Likes
880
Points
428
Location
Devils Lake
what he is saying is that no 80 grain recipe in the book provided muzzle velocity data that was anywhere close to the muzzle velocity provided on the box of 80 grain they have. and that none of the recipes in the book claim to push the 80s over 3000 fps. i also find that a bit weird. it ain't hard to push 80s to 3000. i suppose its just a dated book with flawed data and/or the manufacturer fudged their muzzle velocity on the box. but, since it isn't hard to push 80s to 3000, i suspect the former.
 


2400

★★★★★ Legendary Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2016
Posts
8,580
Likes
44
Points
276
Location
Northern AZ
What manual are you using?

Also what primers and brass are you using that makes a difference too. Although without a chronograph all you're doing is guessing.
 

AR-15

★★★★★ Legendary Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Posts
2,311
Likes
210
Points
288
Try a Hodgdon 2016 Annual Manual, it's a magazine sold every year at the book stores, i buy a new one every year, or just go to Hodgdon's web site and print the page you want. To me the factory box info is all about advertising to get you to buy the fastest ammo, remember one thing Maximum loading is not the answer, hope you figure it out and have some fun
 

Kurtr

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Posts
18,239
Likes
1,971
Points
648
Location
Mobridge,Sd
what he is saying is that no 80 grain recipe in the book provided muzzle velocity data that was anywhere close to the muzzle velocity provided on the box of 80 grain they have. and that none of the recipes in the book claim to push the 80s over 3000 fps. i also find that a bit weird. it ain't hard to push 80s to 3000. i suppose its just a dated book with flawed data and/or the manufacturer fudged their muzzle velocity on the box. but, since it isn't hard to push 80s to 3000, i suspect the former.

That's odd though as older books pushed stuff harder than they do now
 

Tymurrey

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 19, 2015
Posts
352
Likes
92
Points
175
I read it as he was looking at the data in the book for 100gr bullets and comparing them to factory 80gr which would make sense that the book wouldn't be anywhere close. With reloading its definitely an apples to apples thing or comparisons don't work. So the box they were looking at were 80gr at lets say 3400 fps and the manual was for 100gr at probably 2900 fps and they were trying to figure out why the velocities don't match.

The beauty of reloading now compared to when I started is the internet is a wealth of knowledge between youtube videos and forums you can read for days and months. Luckily my dad guided me some but a lot of it I still learned from stupid mistakes and a lot of luck that I never got hurt. I would for sure start on a good forum that has some reloading basics sticky's.

One thing with beginning reloading that I can just about guarantee will eventually happen is you will stick a brass in a die from not enough lube so use plenty of lube, I use the hornady one shot. I would recommend you purchase a stuck case remover kit or make your own and make sure you have some extra decapping pins. Check primer pockets before seating primers for any obstructions such as tumbling media from cleaning. Check the length of all your brass after sizing and trim accordingly. Make sure you are only reloading one caliber and load at a time so as to not get confused on your bench or grab the wrong powder/primers. I don't even have a tv in my reloading room as distractions can cause problems. Make sure to calibrate your scale especially if using a digital. Even though some powders may have close to the same name (IMR 4350, H4350) they are not the same and use the data accordingly. Follow the directions on setting up the resizing die, can cause problems if not screwed in far enough and not sizing the brass correctly, as you get more experienced you can start with bumping shoulders and neck sizing but that will come with experience. Every gun is different, a load that may not be over pressure in one can be over pressure in another, with todays data I haven't seen it often and only with max loads but something to be aware of. Brass brand makes a difference as capacity between brands is different and a good load in one brand may be hot in another.

I know I just posted a jumbled up mess but wanted to give you and your friend some things to think about and watch for when starting reloading. I enjoy reloading but it is one of those things that deserves respect and attention.
 

Kentucky Windage

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Posts
5,323
Likes
465
Points
368
Location
Wendy Peffercorn’s Bedroom
It sounds like you and your neighbor need to do some beginner reloading reading.

- - - Updated - - -

And that's not meant to hurt your feelings. It's to keep your fingers and eyes..........
 


Recent Posts

Friends of NDA

Top Posters of the Month

  • This month: 159
  • This month: 133
  • This month: 116
  • This month: 108
  • This month: 104
  • This month: 87
  • This month: 82
  • This month: 76
  • This month: 75
  • This month: 74
Top Bottom