Deer Licenses

Deer license changes?

  • The system is fine, No change is needed

    Votes: 142 74.7%
  • 1 lottery tag that can be used in any season (bow, rifle-unit specific or muzzleloader - statewide)

    Votes: 26 13.7%
  • Statewide archery OR "rifle tag" be used in bow or rifle (unit/sex specific) OR sep. muzzleloader

    Votes: 7 3.7%
  • Limited bow only tag for statewide and 1 lottery tag that can be used in any season

    Votes: 9 4.7%
  • Previously suggested1 license/tag system

    Votes: 6 3.2%

  • Total voters
    190

duckman1302

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Posts
342
Likes
31
Points
140
Location
Dickinson
Here is what I personally do: I start out my archery season looking for a buck (I have gotten 1 in 8 years), then come November, I will shoot a doe with my bow if I have the opportunity and I do not have a rifle tag. If I have a rifle tag and I fill it then I will not fill my archery tag, the meat from 1 deer is enough for me for 1 year. The only chance for me to harvest two bucks in the same year would be if I would get lucky enough to get a buck with my bow early in the season and I have a rifle tag the same year (hasn't happened yet). This year I have an archery tag and a rifle doe tag. I will be hunting for a buck with my bow and if I get one, the doe tag will not be filled. If I do not get one I will fill my doe tag with my rifle and not my archery tag. Everyone hunts differently and not everyone that has two tags is getting 2 bucks all of those years. These are the kind of things that not everyone takes into consideration when they hear of someone having multiple tags in the same year. Like I said, I understand that some do hunt only bucks and harvest multiple bucks if given the chance, but I do not feel that number is significant in the overall scheme of things. But as with all of these posts, it is simply a matter of opinion.

One additional point regarding the resident archery tags - they can be used for any deer - whitetail or mule deer, buck or doe. Unless the deer rifle unit has a restriction on it. There is one unit yet where antlerless mule deer are off limits.

That reminds me, I was asked how many people would actually use their archery tag for a doe.

I have no idea how many would but I have and so has dad.

Not very often though but we have in the past.
 


jdinny

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 20, 2015
Posts
2,240
Likes
129
Points
288
kurtr, archery tags are OTC. You're able to harvest two bucks if your rifle tag is also for an antlered variety. You could even do three if you drew a muzzy tag. However, draw odds for muzzy, rifle, and big three all in the same year is probably harder to do then landing a playboy playmate.


I landed a many playboy playmates in my younger years with the use of beer goggles.
 

Obi-Wan

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 15, 2015
Posts
7,494
Likes
2,524
Points
678
Location
Bismarck
39937434_2008009632595080_488461064296464384_n.jpg
 

ndlongshot

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Posts
1,777
Likes
112
Points
258
Davey your example is BS. 5 kids at the table and 5 burgers no one gets two.

What its REALLY like is, 5 kids at the table, 3 burgers, and 2 hotdogs, but little Davey is spoiled little shit who will only eat burgers and wants more for himself even though there are other options available with same end result. A full belly.

And guess what, hard decisions have to made. Mom and dad say "sit down shut up and eat, or go without".....unfortunately ND GNF has to act like parents to a bunch of whiny ass grown kids like you. Sit down, get the tags available, and go hunt. OR GO WITHOUT!
 


Obi-Wan

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 15, 2015
Posts
7,494
Likes
2,524
Points
678
Location
Bismarck
Davey your example is BS. 5 kids at the table and 5 burgers no one gets two.

What its REALLY like is, 5 kids at the table, 3 burgers, and 2 hotdogs, but little Bow Hunter is a spoiled little shit who thinks he is entitled to eat burgers and wants more for himself even though there are other that will have to go without. The end result is an empty belly for some.

And guess what, hard decisions have to made. Mom and dad say "sit down and grab as much as you can eat who cares if the red headed step child goes without".....unfortunately ND GNF is acting like millennial parents to a bunch of whiny ass bow hunters who don't like to share. Sit down and shut up, as long as I get my tags I don't care if you go without

Fixed it for you
 

db-2

★★★★★ Legendary Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2016
Posts
4,105
Likes
1,088
Points
473
Location
ND
Well I see it is apparent that we as a group can come with a new system for whitetail tags and managing that should work well for all.

My ideal of us old farts getting three tags every year to hunt from the time three weeks before the velvet comes off till the horns drop with any weapon other than a 223 AR as we may not be here next year, have contribute so much and deserve that option looks to not happen.
But I do thank all for the support of that concept. Most will be an old fart some day and will have that same option. Just need to be patience.

Game and Fish should have no problem from this site in putting a future plan together based on 109 of the 148 votes at this time.
The future of archery tags should be safe for now anyways.

Hope for rain this weekend as I feel I still have time for my brassicas (or winter oats, rye, winter wheat) before I start hunting in December. Have found quite a few deer with horns but still no shootable buck in site. At this point will probably wait for next year but one never knows what one may find after the rut. Damn another year of eating beef. Hope there is enough hamburgers on the table.

And I am still working so I can buy a Polaris side by side with cash for shed hunting in northern Canada. If you have a newer one for sale and I would like the 1000 cc let me know on this. db
 
Last edited:

gonefshn

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2015
Posts
1,171
Likes
93
Points
213
Location
DL
I think our past G&F Director Dean Hildebrand said it right he told me every single time a person would come in to offer their suggestions on how things should be run as their lips were moving all he would think about was the WIIFM factor. "What's In It For Me". He would always say every single person that came in had suggestions to how to make THEIR hunting easier or THEIR ability to get a tag over someone else. As I read this thread I can't help but think the same.
 

ndlongshot

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Posts
1,777
Likes
112
Points
258
Fixed it for you
Disagree.

In reality. More like 10 kids, 5 burgers, and unlimited hot dogs but the kids keep screaming for more burgers. Sorry but you can't trade in hot dogs for burgers. Dont work that way. They dont exist. Its apples and oranges. Rifle tags and archery tags are NOT equal. Thats why archery is OTC unlimited and rifle is lottery. Getting rid of archery WILL not solve your problem.

Again, like kids screaming for more burgers when the deep freeze is empty. Got a pile of hot dogs but that wont suffice.

Obi and Davey not sure it could be beat into your head anymore. I'm sorry but you guys are wrong on this. Your entitled to your opinion, but it doesnt make you right.
 

Meelosh

★★★★★ Legendary Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2016
Posts
1,302
Likes
12
Points
171
I think our past G&F Director Dean Hildebrand said it right he told me every single time a person would come in to offer their suggestions on how things should be run as their lips were moving all he would think about was the WIIFM factor. "What's In It For Me". He would always say every single person that came in had suggestions to how to make THEIR hunting easier or THEIR ability to get a tag over someone else. As I read this thread I can't help but think the same.

Notice how some people actually provide numbers and some don't...and what side they are on. The 'one-tag, use it any way you want' scenario is unworkable. Now, if they mean you can choose to bow hunt as it is, but than you can't apply for the rifle lottery, essentially two pools, its at least workable but not palatable for most. Of course most folks are not going to like it. Why would they? The guys that hunt archery and rifle hunt are the only ones asked to give up anything. There isn't a bargain to be struck. So why would they willingly do so? The one tag folks are not selling the idea at all. Actually show some data and maybe we will listen. But just ignoring all the numbers the other side is providing and insisting they are right is akin to being a flat-earther.
 


PrairieGhost

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 15, 2015
Posts
10,327
Likes
682
Points
443
Location
Drifting the high plains
When our archery club first started in Jamestown back in the early 1980's this same debate was going on. We had about 80 members and when asked if there was an archery only season the majority would give up bow hunting and go gun only. Even if they could hunt with bow they would not put the effort and expense into it. If the one tag system would only let you hunt with a single weapon about 80% would give up archery hunting. If the gun hunters want to go to a one tag system I am very sure they will cut their odds with more people applying for gun licenses. As it stands right now everyone has the same opportunity. Some gun hunters will deny that, but they have the same opportunity as anyone else to purchase a bow and a bow license. If they don't want to do that it's ok, but I would surmise it's because they don't want to put the effort into it. Besides it's hard to shoot a bow out a pickup window. :::

OK Obi now you can give me that unsigned bad rep.
 

Obi-Wan

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 15, 2015
Posts
7,494
Likes
2,524
Points
678
Location
Bismarck
Notice how some people actually provide numbers and some don't...and what side they are on. The 'one-tag, use it any way you want' scenario is unworkable. Now, if they mean you can choose to bow hunt as it is, but than you can't apply for the rifle lottery, essentially two pools, its at least workable but not palatable for most. Of course most folks are not going to like it. Why would they? The guys that hunt archery and rifle hunt are the only ones asked to give up anything. There isn't a bargain to be struck. So why would they willingly do so? The one tag folks are not selling the idea at all. Actually show some data and maybe we will listen. But just ignoring all the numbers the other side is providing and insisting they are right is akin to being a flat-earther.

If I am not mistaken one of the proposal was that if you were successful in the gun lottery you could not buy a bow tag but if you were unsuccessful you could purchase a bow tag. The only thing bow hunters were asked to give up was 2 tags.
 

Bfishn

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Posts
3,849
Likes
251
Points
333
If I am not mistaken one of the proposal was that if you were successful in the gun lottery you could not buy a bow tag but if you were unsuccessful you could purchase a bow tag. The only thing bow hunters were asked to give up was 2 tags.
The problem with that is your basically just punishing the guys who put in for an easy draw rifle unit that nobody else wants anyways. Everyone will still be putting in for the same rifle tags and it will do nothing to improve rifle chances especially in the hard to draw units. In fact if your going to punish the guys who put in for easy units, they may start putting in for the badlands instead so they can still bow hunt by home and then occasionally muley hunt with rifle in the badlands.

I think its funny that Obi and Davey think any change will benefit them, and it doesn't dawn on you two for a second that a change may actually hurt your cause. A one tag system may actually increase rifle applicants to desired units, or in Davey's case may put into jeopardy the every year gratis buck tag to get more tags into the general lottery.
 
Last edited:

dust in the wind

Founding Member
Founding Member
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Posts
2,570
Likes
29
Points
246
Location
somewhere else
That’s the thing - no one - including the game and fish knows what those 16,xxx people who applied for a rifle and purchased a bow tag would actually do. I’m part of that and I still don’t know what I would have done. Not that I have given it much thought since it was shelved.

Since that plan did nothing to increase the number of tags available for the lottery, it may have done absolutely nothing to improve your odds, it may have removed some applicants from certain units or it may have increased applicants in some units.

no one knows and was basically a bandaid approach to try to quiet down those complaining.
 

Obi-Wan

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 15, 2015
Posts
7,494
Likes
2,524
Points
678
Location
Bismarck
The G&F has to take into consideration the # of bow tags and harvest rate in determining the number of rifle tags for a given season. Just picking a random number but If you have 7500 guys that do not get a bow tag because they drew a rifle tag that's 7500 bow tags and considering the success ratio of archery is around 30% the G&F would be able add 2250 potentially harvested animals. If you took that 2250 animals and used the 70% gun ratio that would put about 3200 tags to the lottery system without affecting the overall harvest numbers. The problem is that with the present archery tag being state wide some units would benefit more than others. I know these numbers are not accurate but am using them for an example.
 


dust in the wind

Founding Member
Founding Member
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Posts
2,570
Likes
29
Points
246
Location
somewhere else
Obi - as of December 2017 - the archery tags and success rates have NO impact on determining how many rifle tags are allocated.

I posted this earlier in this thread and will post it again.

Question
Do the archery tags being issued today, have any impact on the number of licenses available for rifle tags/gratis tags?

Answer
It’s possible but probably not a big factor at this point. We use several different methods to determine how many deer tags to issue each year, are the number of deer being harvested by archers making a difference in the overall number of deer on the landscape which would then make a difference in the number of licenses being issued for gun tags? A number of years ago I would say that answer was most definitely a no, but the harvest associated with archery hunting has also increased a fair amount over the last 10 years to where we can no longer say that number is insignificant.


Also adding this again since it does apply to your post.

Question
If that plan were to have been implemented, there may have been X number (past discussions said it might be 7,000 to 10,000) of bow hunters that were no longer in the lottery due to wanting to keep the statewide bow option. If that were to have happened, would that simply have reduced the number of people in the lottery OR would it have actually increased the tags in the lottery?


Answer
The idea behind the one deer plan was to reduce the competition in the gun lottery, not add licenses to the lottery due to a lower number of bow licenses being sold.





 
Last edited:

duckman1302

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Posts
342
Likes
31
Points
140
Location
Dickinson
This doesn't state the money they would lose. I would say at least 15,000 less total tags @ $30/tag = $450,000 less annually by switching to a one tag system.


Stats from G&F website for 2017
54,500 Rifle tags 63% success = 34,335
1,022 ML Tags 38% Success = 388
28,481 Bow Tags 39% Success = 11,108
Total estimated deer killed is 45,831.
If we went to a 1 tag system, what would be a reasonably success rate? 80%? If you use that number and figure the deer herd can support the number of 45.8k deer killed that would mean there would be roughly 57k licenses available with 1 tag system. This may increase rifle hunters chances of getting a tag by 2500 licenses but would take the chance to hunt away from 27K people to do so.
 

Yoby

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 13, 2015
Posts
1,482
Likes
9
Points
196
Location
E. SD
That reminds me, I was asked how many people would actually use their archery tag for a doe.

In the 6 years I archery hunted ND, I have shot 2 bucks and 3 does. (not including the Fargo City doe management program). 1st year hunting was fortunate to get a decent buck. Next year I held out for a buck and ended with tag soup. From there on I went for a buck until late rut then anything with a good sized body and no trailing fawns were targeted.
 

Phill Latio

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2015
Posts
500
Likes
44
Points
173
I personally like the current system,
between my wife and I we have killed 6 bucks in the last two seasons :;:stirthepot

Carry on ......;:;popcorn
 

CutEm

Active Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Posts
58
Likes
2
Points
55
Location
Central Nodak
If a change was made you wouldn't have any better chance of drawing a tag than you do now. A few thousand more tags spread across the state don't mean shit in the grand scheme of things. There are leftover tags after the second lottery if you really wanna hunt. I get wanting to have young kids get tags to keep them interested and old people because its their last hunts but if we did that nobody else would get tags.

The real problem is all these damn guys that started getting their wives and daughters into hunting. That damn near doubled the lottery applicants. Thanks alot guys!!

Just kidding, I think its awesome more women are getting involved. It helps promote the sport and makes it a full family affair. It takes that male dominated neanderthal sport rhetoric away from the liberals in California.

The real key is habitat, habitat, habitat. You wanna see deer numbers rise? Plant a quarter of crp, don't break the back pasture up, leave that old tree row or farmstead. We will never see 100,000 tags again unless habitat becomes a priority. It won't however because of greed basically. I can make more money farmin through that old farmstead so f that habitat.

I drew rifle and muzzle loader this year. I am also a bowhunter, so I have the potential to kill three bucks. I waited 7 years for my rifle and 11 for my muzzle loader. They happened to fall on the same year I can't do anything about that. I have not killed a buck since 2011 and that was with my bow. Am i greedy because I was lucky this year? No, I put my time in and this is the year.

The reality is there is no change that would appease the masses. This is how it is and how it is going to be unless North Dakota as a state gets behind promoting habitat and that's not gonna happen.

carry on.
 


Recent Posts

Friends of NDA

Top Posters of the Month

  • This month: 159
  • This month: 133
  • This month: 116
  • This month: 108
  • This month: 104
  • This month: 86
  • This month: 82
  • This month: 76
  • This month: 75
  • This month: 74
Top Bottom