Badlands mule deer

[dirtytough]

I finally filled my tag yesterday afternoon. Curious what type of quality everyone else is seeing? I believe the buck quality is way down in the badlands. Even last year I didn't see as many mature bucks as I have in the past. I scouted all day before the opener and hunted everyday except one. So 12 days counting the scouting day. I don't believe I saw more then a handful of mature bucks. I covered a ton of country on foot and with glass. I road hunted 1 day. 6 of those days other people where hunting with me so twice as many eyes to spot game.

I was kind of comparing this hunt to one some family just did in Colorado. It takes about the same amount of points to draw the unit they hunted as it does to draw a badlands buck tag. They have never been in the unit or hunted Colorado before. They went 3 for 3 in 5 days and killed a 183 4/8's, 187 4/8's, and one that is probably 150-160 that didn't get measured. All on public. They are your normal weekend hunter that hunt blacktails in Washington.

Now my wife and I both had muley buck tags. I have spent a good amount of time in the badlands and know the unit pretty well. I know where I can go to see 100 deer in a day. And I honestly don't know if I saw a legit 180" buck.

Why such a difference in quality? I have my own thoughts and am curious what everyone else thinks.

 

[GSM]

What unit were you in? I would agree with you that this year seemed tougher for mature bucks. I have hunted out west quite a bit as well, but honestly how many legit 180" bucks do you see every year?

what did you fill your tag on?

 

[KDM]

Private or Public land seems to be the hitch pin to finding mature mulies. Most of the guys that I know that hunted private land took mature bucks while the public land guys often settled for 150ish bucks. Lots of hunter pressure on public land starting with stick and string and continuing right up to the end of season in January, which I can't help but suspect pushes lots of the deer, both bucks and does, onto less pressured land, ie. private.

 

[2400]

Why such a difference in quality? I have my own thoughts and am curious what everyone else thinks.

Are you defining quality as 180 or better or???

 

[frozen4sioux]

hunted 4c
Scouted two weekends and hunted for 6 days.
Id echo the lacknof quality mature bucks.

Saw lots of deer everyday, lots and lots of young bucks, does and fawns.

The key was always to get at least a draw away from a road or activity, the further away the more deer we saw, but still not much of mature quality.

Biggest we saw was on private property.
The snow/sleet stirm seem to finally get them up moving. Lots of miles on the boots and mud on the tires but always seemed to match the one draw away from activity was the key.

 

[Whisky]

Im gonna say it but i dont really want to... Bow hunter pressure and success has something to do with it. In 2014 archers killed 453 mile deer. In 2017 archers killed 1046 mule deer... That, along with more ambitious hunters in general.

 

[drivenmarine.net]

Dirty and Frozen,
I agree with both of you. We are hunting 4C and have not seen anything I would call mature. The future looks good with all of the does, fawns, and small bucks, but they are obviously being pressured. I wounder how many will get to that 160-ish range. We'll see how this weekend goes.

 

[Mort]

Can't compare Colorado to here my son, total different environment and not sure why the racks are bigger on Colorado muley's. My guess would be the forage of food would make the difference. I'm sorry but you gonna hate me for saying this, think you put too much pressure on yourself to get a 180 or larger buck out of the badlands, I think people around here think the badlands is loaded with them, thats not the case.

 

[Bfishn]

Im gonna say it but i dont really want to... Bow hunter pressure and success has something to do with it. In 2014 archers killed 453 mile deer. In 2017 archers killed 1046 mule deer... That, along with more ambitious hunters in general.

I'm assuming this is partially due to more hunters, and partially due to increasing amount of deer.

I saw more deer this year by far than the last two years combined, bucks, does, fawns, didn't matter. No true giants, but plenty of nice bucks.

 

[5575]

The best days of the badlands are gone, there's just to much pressure on those public lands. I score allot of the biggest deer in the state each year and the vast majority of the best muleys come off private lands, its not even close. They can control what is being harvested and now days on allot of ranches if its not 180 gross its not getting shot, at least by the adults. And I think the oil field has really put the hurt on the muleys as well, from both poaching and getting hit on the roads. Can't imagine how many get smoked by trucks every week.
And you will also start to see more and more leasing and outfitters as the years go on state wide.
Hate to say it but social media is the demise of good hunting across the country. Information is way to readily available these days with the click of a button
And with things like ND bucks and bulls it just adds fuel to that fire for our state.

Loose lips sink ships...

Oh and having rifle season smack dab during the rut is a shame...sorry but it is. Nothing easier to kill than a buck muley in November.

 

[dirtytough]

Are you defining quality as 180 or better or???

Not really. I base quality off of mature animals. And if animals are allowed to grow up you will have bucks with good genetics that can achieve high scoring antlers.

As for the public/private deal. I hunt a few different areas that are on the edge of private. The top 5-7 bucks I saw during the hunt were on public. I've never seen a hunter on the different parcels of private either. My wifes buck was about half mile from private opening morning and around 100 yards away when the season opened. My buck was miles from private.

A few things I think are possible reasons for the lack of quality the last few years.
Guys filling archery tags with a rifle.
To many tags.
After the drastic tag cuts in '10 '11 it started taking longer for guys to draw. So they are putting more time an effort into the hunt since tags aren't coming as often.
Technology is making longer shots easy. My wife made a 1 shot kill @413 yards on her deer. And 413 yards isn't even a long shot now days.
A 16.5 day season during the heart of the rut. There is only so much cover and when the bucks are rutting they are in the open a lot more.
And hunters just hunting harder in general. I saw guys that are completely out of shape a couple miles from the truck. My buddy at 6' 270lbs got his buck about 3 miles from the truck.

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Can't compare Colorado to here my son, total different environment and not sure why the racks are bigger on Colorado muley's. My guess would be the forage of food would make the difference. I'm sorry but you gonna hate me for saying this, think you put too much pressure on yourself to get a 180 or larger buck out of the badlands, I think people around here think the badlands is loaded with them, thats not the case.

What about Saskatchewan? They have absolute giants. Its limited. Our country is a lot the same as Sask. As for the grasslands not having many 180 bucks I agree. But 2016 and prior I saw absolute studs that I thought rivaled Colorado. Not the top end bucks in Colorado. But the 170"-190" bucks. And a lot of mature bucks that don't score but are still heavy old bucks. In fact I chose to archery hunt ND instead of getting tags for out of state hunts. Every state has big bucks if they get age on them. Maybe we don't have the 180" 3.5 year olds that Wyoming does. But I guarantee we would have 180" 5.5 year olds with mass.

Here are a couple of the better bucks I saw. I probably saw at least 5 better then these but not by a lot.

 

[Retired Educator]

Don't have an easy comparison as I haven't hunted out west much in the past few years because of no tag. The first weekend I had trouble finding deer, the second I saw lots of deer with some very respectable bucks. It also seemed like I saw more hunters than ever, even though the total number of tags isn't up significantly. I do know that there were still archery huntrss chasing mules thus past weekend. Saw more bucks with does than the first weekend but it didn't seem like they were full bore. Saw quite a few bucks actually leaving does and going their separate ways. I know if they don't find a receptive doe that can be the case but I also saw herds of 4-7 does with no bucks in sight. That seemed a little different than a full bore rut. I guess I'll have to wait another 5-7 years to have another comparison.

 

[sweeney]

2016 was the last good year I saw several bucks in the 160-180+ range the last two years if you see a 160-170 that may be the biggest buck you see all year in 4C. I have to agree with the guys who say people are hunting harder and just about anyone can kill a deer with a bow now. I honestly am ready to go back to 4b and drive the extra hour, there is way more pressure in 4c in the last 3 years then I ever remember. Maybe if ndgf expands 4c again it might take some pressure off, but who knows.

 

[buckhunter24_7]

I finally filled my tag yesterday afternoon. Curious what type of quality everyone else is seeing? I believe the buck quality is way down in the badlands. Even last year I didn't see as many mature bucks as I have in the past. I scouted all day before the opener and hunted everyday except one. So 12 days counting the scouting day. I don't believe I saw more then a handful of mature bucks. I covered a ton of country on foot and with glass. I road hunted 1 day. 6 of those days other people where hunting with me so twice as many eyes to spot game.

I was kind of comparing this hunt to one some family just did in Colorado. It takes about the same amount of points to draw the unit they hunted as it does to draw a badlands buck tag. They have never been in the unit or hunted Colorado before. They went 3 for 3 in 5 days and killed a 183 4/8's, 187 4/8's, and one that is probably 150-160 that didn't get measured. All on public. They are your normal weekend hunter that hunt blacktails in Washington.

Now my wife and I both had muley buck tags. I have spent a good amount of time in the badlands and know the unit pretty well. I know where I can go to see 100 deer in a day. And I honestly don't know if I saw a legit 180" buck.

Why such a difference in quality? I have my own thoughts and am curious what everyone else thinks.

Colorado is far and away the top Boone and Crockett state for mule deer

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Genetics

 

[Kickemup]

I hunted 4b last week for 3 days before I killed my buck. I seen one really big one that got into the park before I could shoot. Other than that I only seen 3 mature bucks. I shot a old buck that probably won’t even score 145. And seen one more good one driving back to interstate after I got mine. There were fork horns everywhere. Most batch of does had a young buck with them. But the 3 mature bucks I seen were with does.

 

[Deep Forks]

Currently helping a buddy hunt in 4E, rut is just getting cranking from what I've seen. But ya, quality is down... technology technology technology... Its not going away and i use it myself but think of all the 150-160" bucks that are getting shot at 400+ yards that back in previous years woulda made it to the next year. You no longer need to be in shape to hunt 'certain' areas of the west. Your bullet can do the walking for you. Like I said, I get it, and use it myself but be prepared for lower quality deer in the future for this reason.

 

[Kurtr]

Colorado is far and away the top Boone and Crockett state for mule deer

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Genetics

the strip in Arizona seems to be the holy grail of mule deer

 

[Wags2.0]

the strip in Arizona seems to be the holy grail of mule deer

And that’s FAR from a sure thing either. Couple buddies hunted there 2 years ago and only one of them punched a tag on a super old 150 buck. It’s called hunting. For what we have to work with, ND has great mule deer genetics imo

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The strip or the Henry’s would be a dream hunt for me

 

[dirtytough]

Colorado is far and away the top Boone and Crockett state for mule deer

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Genetics

It could be great genetics. Or it could be the fact there is no otc mule deer season. There are extremely limited tags during the rut. The season with extremely limited tags only has a 5 day season not 16.5 days.

Look at Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Arizona, and Colorado. Colorado kills those other states when it comes to BC bucks. But Colorado also used to be crappy until they started going to all draw for mule deer and actually managing. Idaho used to be the best when it comes to BC mule deer. Did they lose their genetics or is it because they have OTC general seasons? Same with Wyoming. It would rival Colorado if most of the units weren’t OTC for residents.

I personally think every state has the genetics. I used to live in Washington. It’s not known for big bucks. But I could find a big buck most years by hunting areas most guys wouldn’t. But the access in ND is to easy. It’s hard to get more then 3-4 miles from a road. Which doesn’t allow the deer to get away from hunters and grow up.

Some guys think there are bigger bucks on private. I would agree most years it’s true but this year I didn’t see much difference. Let’s say it is true that on average there are better bucks on private. Is that because of better genetics or because the deer are actually mature? Pretty sure a 3 strand fence isn’t kepping the genetics from the public land.

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Here is a buck in Washington that I watched for 8 years as a 4 point.
Here is the first year I took pics of him. Looks a lot like most of the 4 points I saw in the badlands this year.

4 years later he was in his prime score wise probably.

Here he is 2 years later regressing. Smaller forks but still plenty of mass.

Only difference I see between this buck and the 30 like it I saw in the grasslands during the rifle hunt this year is age.

 

[zoops]

My couch potato point of view is that the badlands just aren't vast enough. Happy thanksgiving all.