WTF?? How MN is going to deal with CWD this month...wow!

Kurtr

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KDM, would you eat a deer that you know has CWD?

That is really what it comes down to for me. At this point, I don't think I would. This isn't 1967 anymore, WI didn't have 30% infection rate in 1967, WY didn't have 38 million acres affected in 1967. Deer are herd animals, the more that have the disease the faster it will spread right, a classic case of exponential growth? Will WI see 50% infection rate in the next 5-10 years?
Point being, the more deer that are out there infected with CWD, the better the odds are that I shoot one and have to throw it away.

Eradication is very extreme to me, not sure if I totally agree with it. But what other measures would you propose to try to slow down the spread of CWD?

Baiting- I don't agree with baiting as a hunting method from a personal level so any argument from me that a bait ban will contain CWD is already tainted. I won't mention it again.


how do you know how many acres were affected in Wyoming if they were not even testing for it maybe it was more maybe less but it is all a guess.

https://elknetwork.com/researcher-humic-acid-may-break-down-cwd/
 


Lungdeflator

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None of this is "fear" based or meant as "scare" tactics. I'm still going to deer hunt and eat venison as I always do, but I probably won't be hunting the SW corner of WI anytime soon. I don't know much about TB or Anthrax so I'll stick to CWD.

I've read a few articles/studies that have found the prions in muscle tissues, so it's not just simply avoiding the brains and spinal columns.

So you admit to not wanting to eat a defective animal. You aren't worried even a little bit about the exponential spread of a disease like CWD? At what infection % would it take for you to become worried about it? How would you feel about an 80% infection rate in ND?

What or who out there is pushing a political agenda through CWD? Is it just Anti hunting groups? I really don't know, honest questions there. I need some edumacation in that area.

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how do you know how many acres were affected in Wyoming if they were not even testing for it maybe it was more maybe less but it is all a guess.

https://elknetwork.com/researcher-humic-acid-may-break-down-cwd/

I don't know, it was a number posted earlier by somebody, I read it on the internet so I took it as gospel.

That Humic Acid is interesting....wonder if it works if it in ingested? Can humic acid get into the bloodstream through ingestion?
 

KDM

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None of this is "fear" based or meant as "scare" tactics. I'm still going to deer hunt and eat venison as I always do, but I probably won't be hunting the SW corner of WI anytime soon. I don't know much about TB or Anthrax so I'll stick to CWD.

I've read a few articles/studies that have found the prions in muscle tissues, so it's not just simply avoiding the brains and spinal columns.

So you admit to not wanting to eat a defective animal. You aren't worried even a little bit about the exponential spread of a disease like CWD? At what infection % would it take for you to become worried about it? How would you feel about an 80% infection rate in ND?

What or who out there is pushing a political agenda through CWD? Is it just Anti hunting groups? I really don't know, honest questions there. I need some edumacation in that area.

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I don't know, it was a number posted earlier by somebody, I read it on the internet so I took it as gospel.

That Humic Acid is interesting....wonder if it works if it in ingested? Can humic acid get into the bloodstream through ingestion?

The number of acres affected by CWD in Wyoming is from their own game and fish website. You have to do some digging, but you can find the 2017 report I think it was with maps that show where CWD has spread since 2001. It's getting close to the elk feeding locations in the northwest corner of Wyoming.

I have not seen the studies you speak of that have found CWD in muscle. Please foreword those if you can.

No, I'm not concerned with the spread of CWD as I see no evidence that it's a threat to humans or for that matter even the deer. The areas that have CWD, still have strong deer populations in several states. Where is this so called doomsday disease that supposed to decimate the deer populations. Wyoming has had it for 20 years and they still have thriving big game populations. Deer and elk don't live 20 years normally, so where's the impacts. Where's the impact in Wisconsin? or Minnesota? or even right here in ND? You say Wisconsin has a 30% infection rate, so there should be at least some impacts on the population by now you would think. Yet there is none that I have been able to find. It's all speculation, which translates into fear mongering, scare tactics, and emotions. The CWD prions are found in the soil, just like anthrax and seem to last as long. I sure don't think about catching anthrax when they till the soil and put up that dust cloud and I sure won't think about catching CWD either. I have the same feeling about CWD in deer. When I shoot a deer that looks, acts, feels, and tastes like it should, I'm not going to worry if it had TB, rabies, antrax, CWD, diarrhea, or post nasal drip. If I feel the need to test every deer for every disease that it could carry that I might catch, I'd have to give up hunting and stay in the house. People give people diseases all the time, but you wouldn't know it by the way folks act in the bars at 1am scrambling around to engage in all manner of disease transmission activities, but you don't hear even 1% of the fear mongering or scare tactics about those diseases that we are now hearing about CWD. STD's, Hepatitis, TB, Flu, Colds, and the list goes on. You won't be giving up hunting because of TB, rabies, anthrax, or any of the deer diseases already found in ND and you don't feel you need to test for these when you decide to eat your deer, so why is CWD different?
 

Fritz the Cat

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https://www.silvercreekspecialtymeats.com/venison-processing/

Dear Venison Customers, Silver Creek Specialty Meats would like to inform you that unfortunately we will no longer be accepting any venison for processing. As you are probably aware chronic wasting disease in the wild deer population of the State of Wisconsin has been steadily spreading. The disease has now been found in wild deer in 19 counties throughout the state. Due to the spread of the disease it has become extremely difficult to screen out any venison coming from CWD infected areas. Consumer safety is our number one concern and no matter how small the risk (if any) of humans being infected by this disease we are not and never will be willing to put profit before the safety and well being of our customers. Both state and federal health officials advise against consuming venison from infected deer. Due to the batch processing that we use to produce venison products we cannot be assured beyond absolute certainty that CWD contaminated venison would not be able to mix with non contaminated venison. Therefore we will no longer be accepting or processing venison. We thank you for your business over these many years and hope you will continue to enjoy the quality products produced at Silver Creek and sold at many of the local stores. Sincerely,Management at Silver Creek Specialty
 

Uncle Rico

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I agree with KDM completely. This is way down the list in my opinion, but it's the "hot" topic for the time being, so we better get used to it.

I guess I don't really follow the hypothetical talk about "what if the infection rate was 20, 30, 80 percent in ND". To me, those sick animals wont be any more dangerous to eat than the currently infected ones. Also, I personally don't believe anything we do will prevent nature from getting to those levels of infection, if that's what's meant to be. So I see no reason to worry too much about it. All this stuff is out of our control, period.

Its not that much different than Eurasion Milfoil and/or zebra mussels in MN. The world was certain to end on both fronts. Years of panic, resulting in really mostly a big nuthinburger. While those and other invasives are not ideal and a bit of a PITA, I guess I have a higher belief in nature to find a way through just about anything. It will work itself out in my opinion.
 


db-2

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I am not sure what one needs to do but.
As stated kill all the deer to save the deer??????

ND game and fish told me that CWD is in the dirt and last forever.
So kill the host of the disease but not the disease and the disease will only be there when the deer come back. Yes I do buy into that it is spread by contact, but if one if found to have it there are more so kill them all. (need to kill the disease and in my opinion you are not doing that by killing the deer, maybe slowing it down only)
Would think if it is in the soil and lives forever that's where we need to focus for the future. Not sure how it dies in the soil and NDGF told me the sun or whatever will never kill it. I am sure something will kill it. Maybe time.
In my life time have dealt with anthrax and bangs disease in the cow herd, no fun and in the end one needs to kill the cows/bulls, bury and put lime on top. But anthrax continues to lives in the soil also.
A lot of misunderstanding and a lot of lack of knowledge of just what it is, how it lives, ect. with the book learners so let's try whatever and not worry about all the consequence that come from whatever if it is good or bad.
Some studies I have seen say it is bacteria and not a protein in the soil.

But at one time the black death in Europe came close to wiping out the people and am not sure how that was stop. But at the time they had all kinds of whys, where it came from and how to stop that were way out in left field.
Read an article that stated at one time there were only 12000 humans left in the world due to some kind of disease. No ideal how that is known but if true I guess we made it back.
Yes we need to be concern. Maybe nothing will stop it except nature itself one day. But for now there is a lot of shots in the dark that it appears have not proven to work. db
 
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BDub

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[FONT=&quot]ST. PAUL — There is growing concern in the scientific and public health community that chronic wasting disease, which is killing deer in Minnesota, Wisconsin and elsewhere, could jump to people some day.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]That unsettling news was featured in a hearing at the Minnesota Capitol Thursday, Feb. 7, where a number of experts from the University of Minnesota pressed upon lawmakers that the disease should be treated as a public health issue — a major expansion of its current scope as mostly a wildlife and hunting concern.
The issue is especially pressing for Minnesota, where wildlife officials are tracking the state’s largest outbreak of CWD to date in deer in the southeast portion of the state.
No person is known to have gotten sick from eating or handling a CWD-infected deer.
But scientists have always been wary of it because the disease is spread via extremely hardy protein cells, known as prions, making it similar to mad cow disease, which did jump from cows to people, where it is also fatal and without a cure.

Michael Osterholm, director for the University of Minnesota’s Center for Infectious Disease and Research Prevention who sat on a panel of experts tracking the emergence of mad cow disease, or BSE, decades ago, told lawmakers this:
“It is my best professional judgment based on my public health experience and the risk of BSE transmission to humans in the 1980s and 1990s and my extensive review and evaluation of laboratory research studies … that it is probable that human cases of CWD associated with the consumption of contaminated meat will be documented in the years ahead. It is possible that number of human cases will be substantial and will not be isolated events.”
He noted that for years, many in the public health and beef industry did not believe mad cow disease could infect people. In 1996, researchers confirmed that BSE (bovine spongiform encephalopathy) can infect people as variant known as Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease.
[h=2]Why concern is growing[/h]More than a year ago, Canadian researchers publicly presented initial findings that some primates — macaque monkeys — in a laboratory were fed CWD-infected meat and developed neurological disorders. The results have yet to be published in a peer-reviewed journal, but the findings sparked enough concern in Canada for the nation’s food safety agency to issue an advisory. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the World Health Organization recommend against eating CWD-infected deer, but without anything conclusive, wildlife agencies throughout America say the decision is a personal choice, and some hunters do eat the meat.
Adding to the concern is this: The prions are nearly indestructible, capable of withstanding temperatures well above 1,000 degrees — and unlike viruses, CWD prions remain viable in the wild for years, sitting in the dirt, getting sucked up by plant roots and even just resting on inanimate objects.
Peter Larsen, an assistant professor at the University of Minnesota’s College of Veterinary Medicine, told lawmakers of a research project where a CWD-exposed rock was placed in a cage with hamsters — and they became infected.
“If I were to model contamination, the closest thing I can think of is it would be similar to modeling radioactive material,” Larsen said.
[h=2]More questions than answers[/h]One of the problems, Larsen and other experts said Thursday, is that much is unknown about CWD.
Among the questions:
• How much of a “dose” will infect?
• Where do deer actually contract it — saliva, feces, food, dirt?
• What happens to food-processing equipment that is exposed to a CWD-infected deer?
“We just don’t have tests for that,” said Jeremy Schefers, an assistant professor at the University of Minnesota’s Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory — the only place in Minnesota where any CWD tests can be done. Those tests can only be done on brains, certain nodes and a few other parts of deer, and it takes days, Schefers said.
[h=2]Portable testing proposed[/h]Schefers and Larsen are part of a team proposing to develop a new testing device that can be used on live or dead animals and give results in minutes or hours, not days.
The team, which also includes nanotechnology experts, is asking lawmakers for $1.8 millionto embark on the project.
Currently, wildlife officials believe only about 1 percent of the deer in Fillmore County are infected. However, in Wisconsin, where the disease has become endemic in many areas, infection rates are believed to have reached 35 percent in some deer populations.
[/FONT]
 

shorthairman

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For what it is worth, I am on the fence with CWD. On one hand you have a deadly (at least to deer and other ungulates) disease, and on the other those who say it is not something humans need to worry about. When one considers that its only common sense that if you eat something contaminated then you would in turn put yourself at risk of contamination.

When I checked our deer in this past fall, I asked a Game and Fish Officer who was on site about CWD. I also mentioned a study done on primates that I had heard of where the primates had tested positive after being fed contaminated meat. Maybe it was the same as the one above in Canada??? Anyway, he told me that those primates were fed exclusively CWD infected meat for a considerable amount of time and that the primates did not actually contract the disease until the scientists began directly injecting the primates with the prions.
 

Paddledogger

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True there "shorty"! I am unaware of any tests or studies of animal blood and organs to test for any agricultural approved pesticides and chemicals sprayed on crops. After all, it's pretty much a good chunk of their diet. Years back it was thought that CWD was caused by a parasite in stagnant stock ponds and today we hear about deer get it from other deer when feeding in large herds, so now they believe it would help by stopping all baiting statewide. With all of the wide range of possibilities of causes, do they really even have a good grasp on this? Don't know!!! But I surely hope that some day something is done and the ugly disease disappears some day. I've heard of deer that just stand there and stumble around, as they apparently lose their sight shortly before the disease kills them.

Stay warm!
 

dbllung

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True there "shorty"! I am unaware of any tests or studies of animal blood and organs to test for any agricultural approved pesticides and chemicals sprayed on crops. After all, it's pretty much a good chunk of their diet. Years back it was thought that CWD was caused by a parasite in stagnant stock ponds and today we hear about deer get it from other deer when feeding in large herds, so now they believe it would help by stopping all baiting statewide. With all of the wide range of possibilities of causes, do they really even have a good grasp on this? Don't know!!! But I surely hope that some day something is done and the ugly disease disappears some day. I've heard of deer that just stand there and stumble around, as they apparently lose their sight shortly before the disease kills them.

Stay warm!
I believe EHD is caused by mites or midges from standing stagnant water, CWD is a whole other disease....
 


KDM

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The thing about feeding studies using animals to test infection rates or carcinogenic possibilities is is that they use a range of amounts of the test material up to and including 100%. There was a study a few years back looking at Mcdonalds french fries as causing cancer. The rats used in the study were fed high amounts of french fries for their diet including nothing but Mcdonalds french fries. In other words all they ate was french fries. This is NOT a normal diet for rats, nor is it a normal diet for humans. However, some of the rats developed cancer and lo and behold the rats that got cancer were from the groups that was fed stupid high rates of french fries. The researchers then claimed that eating Mcdonalds french fries causes cancer. REALLY?????? I suspect any study on consuming CWD infected foods would have the same experimental design as the french fry study, but with primates instead of rats. I would REALLY like to see this or any study that proclaims CWD can transmit to primates for myself. I suspect that IF these primates contracted CWD is would be from being fed HIGH CONCENTRATIONS of CWD infected materials. Like in the french fry study, eating over 50 percent of ones diet of CWD infected materials is NOT a normal diet for any living creature on earth. One has to look at the details of these claims instead of taking them at face value.
 

shorthairman

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I agree KDM. If one eats nothing but the same unhealthy thing in large quantities for an extended period of time negative side effects are bound to happen and you would be an idiot to think you would get a different outcome. Several years back, I think California found that drinking milk can potentially cause cancer...if you drink 12 gallons a day for two years...

The Game and Fish guy told me the primates were fed an exclusive diet of CWD positive meat, and even at that, the primates never tested positive until direct injection of the prions themselves I think...(not positive on what they injected: maybe brain tissue, blood, or spinal/cerebral fluid). To be honest, I was a little concerned until he said "negative CWD results until direct injection of..." (this is where my mind went..."well I'm not direct injecting so I'm good and it's backstrap on the grill for supper!")
 

MathewsZman

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I believe EHD is caused by mites or midges from standing stagnant water
Huh , I thought it was caused by midgets having sex around sloughs . I read that on this very website so it has to be true !! :;:huh
 
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Fritz the Cat

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Some of you guys are trying hard to convince yourselves this is not serious. Our highly intelligent wildlife professionals differ. Two years ago Representative Ron Kind from Wisconsin introduced a Bill for about $35 million for monitoring and research. (note the word monitoring) A companion Bill was wrote in the Senate by Montana Senator Jon Tester for $60 million for monitoring and research to be given to federal, State and tribal governments. Again (note the word monitoring) Think new pickup trucks, optics, guns, more agents, more testing and sharpshooters. That exact model happened in Wisconsin the last 15 years and how is that working? Meanwhile research money has just about dried up.

Federal, State wildlife agencies along with their surrogate non-profits have been pushing the Kind and Tester Bills to get more money but that isn't working. The trouble is they are written by the National Wildlife federation, the CWD Alliance and Quality Deer Management Association.

So they have invented new Bills this time trying a study using a neutral agency called the National Academies of Sciences.

Bennet, Barrasso, Jones introduce bipartisan bill to tackle chronic wasting disease

Sen. Michael Bennet’s office

February 7th, 2019
WASHINGTON — U.S. Sens. Michael Bennet, D-Colo., John Barrasso, R-Wyo., and Doug Jones, D-Ala., reintroduced bipartisan legislation to increase wildlife managers' ability to keep wildlife healthy.


"Transmission of Chronic Wasting Disease among deer and elk herds is a critical issue, threatening parts of Colorado's outdoor economy and way of life," Bennet said. "This bill would provide state wildlife professionals with the information they need to standardize their work, improve CWD management, and prevent further spread across the country."

The Chronic Wasting Disease Transmission in Cervidae Study Act authorizes a special resource study to determine how CWD spreads and could be prevented in deer and elk. CWD can affect both wild and domestic herds of deer and elk in 26 states and several Canadian provinces. However, state recommendations for preventing the spread of the disease vary. When completed, the study would give state wildlife agencies and wildlife experts information to conduct targeted research on how the disease is transmitted, determine which areas are most at risk, and develop consistent advice for hunters to prevent further spread.

"The NAS study on Chronic Wasting Disease transmission as proposed by Sen. Bennet is a much needed step to help state wildlife agencies better protect our nation's big game populations against the spread and negative effects of Chronic Wasting Disease," said Jeff Ver Steeg, acting director of Colorado Parks and Wildlife.

"By understanding how Chronic Wasting Disease spreads, we can begin to eradicate it and protect our hunting heritage and economy," said Whit Fosburgh, president and CEO of the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. "This bipartisan legislation will bring the Departments of Interior and Agriculture together to ensure healthy wildlife. Sportsmen and women appreciate the leadership of Sens. Barrasso, Jones and Bennet to protect the deer herds that are vital to our way of life."
[COLOR= ]The legislation addresses the needs identified by state agencies through the Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies. The bill requires the USDA and Interior secretaries to enter into an arrangement with the National Academies of Sciences to review current data and best management practices from federal and state agencies regarding:


Pathways and mechanisms for CWD transmission
Areas at risk and geographical patterns of CWD transmission
Gaps in current scientific knowledge regarding transmission to prioritize research to address gaps

Sens. Tammy Baldwin, D-Wis., John Boozman, R-Ark., Shelley Moore Capito, R-W.V., Susan Collins, R-Maine, John Cornyn, R-Texas, Kevin Cramer, R-N.D., Michael Enzi. R-Wyo., Cory Gardner, R-Colo., Maggie Hassan, D-N.H., John Hoeven, R-N.D., Ron Johnson, R-Wis., Angus King, I-Maine, Amy Klobuchar, D-Minn., Gary Peters, D-Mich., Tina Smith, D-Minn., John Thune, R-S.D., Tom Udall, D-N.M., Roger Wicker, R-Miss., and Ron Wyden, D-Ore., cosponsored the legislation. U.S. Rep. Ralph Abraham. R-La., also introduced a bipartisan companion bill in the House of Representatives.


Groups that support the bill include: Association for Fish and Wildlife Agencies, Muley Fanatics Foundation, Boone and Crockett Club, the Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation, The Wilderness Society, the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, the Wild Sheep Foundation, the National Wildlife Federation, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, and others


 
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KDM

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I disagree Fritz. I'm waiting for someone to convince me this IS serious. Even this article states two bills totaling 93 million are needed to STUDY CWD TRANSMISSION. Let me restate that.....93 million to STUDY CWD TRANSMISSION. Question? How can these folks be telling me CWD is this apocalyptic deer disease that's going to decimate the deer and elk populations when they don't even know how CWD is spread and need 93 million to find out??? Like I said....I'm still waiting for someone to convince me that CWD is even a problem.
 
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guywhofishes

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bipartisan just means both dem and pub POLITICIANS and donors benefit somehow

I bet the ethanol scam got bipartisan suport too
 
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Fritz the Cat

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We need to back up a bit KDM. It wasn't $95 million. Those were companion Bills so pick one. $60 or $35.

Neither got any traction because there is a difference between monitoring and research. We can all agree money needs to go to research. They have been monitoring this disease since 1967. Can you hear the giant sucking sound?

So now they have introduced new Bills. S 382 in the Senate and companion in the House HR 837. Have seen no fiscal note. Sometimes people blame the stupid politicians for writing Bills. Senator Barrasso and Representative Abraham did not write these. They only carry them. So who did write these Bills?

Take another look....

Groups that support the bill include: Association for Fish and Wildlife Agencies, Muley Fanatics Foundation, Boone and Crockett Club, the Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation, The Wilderness Society, the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, the Wild Sheep Foundation, the National Wildlife Federation, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, and others.

We have the International Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies which include Canada the U.S. and Mexico. The Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies is the United States which then are broke down into regions. North Dakota is in the Midwest region. So guess who is the Midwest Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies' President?...…….. Terry Steinwand.

KDM, so you are waiting for someone to convince you this is serious? Here ya go:

http://wildlife.org/afwa-passes-resolutions-on-joint-tws-afs-conference-cwd/




 

KDM

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Sorry Fritz, but 65 million or 93 million, it doesn't matter. The point still stands that these people don't even know how CWD is spread, but have declared CWD to be some kind of deer and elk Armageddon. Thanks for the read, but that whole article was about how a bunch of "alphabet soup" supposed wildlife organizations passed some CWD resolutions. No evidence or data of any kind. Just loud talk and hot air. Which is in no way a substitute for scientific study. Show me some evidence!! Don't show me a pile of grand standing fear mongers making declarations about what they think is truth. Question: If this same group all of a sudden declared any pen raised elk or deer meat to be a hazard to human health with the exact same amount of evidence they have on CWD being hazardous, would you jump right up and agree?? Again, NO EVIDENCE presented in any of that article that shows me CWD is even a threat.
 

Fritz the Cat

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I was flying from Seattle to Bismarck on Feb. 7th so I missed the ND Sportsmen's Caucus. Did anyone attend? If not you missed an opportunity to visit with some people who could have addressed your concerns.

http://congressionalsportsmen.org/t...us-lunch-and-reception-sets-record-attendance

[h=1]North Dakota: Sportsmen’s Caucus Lunch and Reception Sets Record Attendance[/h] Posted on Monday, February 11, 2019
By Nick Buggia, Upper Midwestern States ManagerOn February 7, the North Dakota Legislative Sportsmen’s Caucus hosted its Sportsmen’s Kickoff Lunch and Reception in Bismarck, which brought together a record attendance of nearly 90 legislators to support the state’s sportsmen and women.Caucus Co-Chair Senators Eran Oban and Jessica Unruh and Representatives Todd Porter and Corey Mock welcomed legislators and representatives of the sportsmen’s community.“This is our first year hosting this event, and I am encouraged by the strong legislative attendance. It speaks to the important role sportsmen and women play in North Dakota’s economy and is a testament to our strong outdoor heritage,” said Rep. Mock.Later that evening, legislators and fellow sportsmen and women gathered for a reception and discussed legislative priorities for 2019. This provided an opportunity for representatives of the hunting and fishing conservation community to meet with their elected officials and build working relationships on behalf of North Dakota’s natural resources and outdoor heritage.Last year, North Dakota sportsmen and women contributed more than $26 million to fish and wildlife conservation through the American System of Conservation Funding.

Sponsors of the event included Ducks Unlimited, National Wild Turkey Federation, North Dakota Bowhunters Association, North Dakota Wildlife Federation, North Dakota Chapter of the Wildlife Society, North Dakota Natural Recourses Trust, Pheasants Forever, and the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.

Permit me to be more blunt, did anyone attend who wasn't being paid to be there?
 


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