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    1. Back To Top    #1
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      HB 1021 - "The Database" End-Around

      For everyone's knowledge, you'll note that the infamous database for hunter access has been sneakily tacked on to HB 1021 (an unrelated appropriations bill) as a study over the interim.

      https://www.legis.nd.gov/assembly/66...0209-04000.pdf (Pg 3, Line 9)

      Since we haven't seen how or if this ties into whatever will come out of the Senate committee, it's tough to say, but it's clear that Erbele and his special interest buddies are already setting the stage for 2021. We'll monitor for now and see what comes of it.

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    2. Back To Top    #2
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      njsimonson,

      thanks for keeping things up to date. its nice to be able to check here for "seemingly" accurate information in regards to whats happeneing.

      im moderately retarted when it comes to this stuff so some clarification is needed but so basically this HB 1021 is essentially a study of this database over the next 2 years??

      in regards to SB2315 the senate did not agree to concur with house amendments so now it goes to committee and they can do what with it???
      my head is literally spinning with all this. im not looking to start another banter on this thread just literally looking for what the hell is happening.

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    3. Back To Top    #3
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      JD -

      Correct on all fronts, except your self-diagnosis . This is all confusing and fast-paced, so we're all trying to keep up and make sense of it, so don't feel bad.

      I try to link to the bills directly, to keep it as accurate as possible, but with SB 2315, we've had to rely on sources (outside and inside the legislature) and PDFs that they could get their hands on in order to keep people updated, as amendments were held up by the proponents til the last moment on a lot of the changes during this session, and actual knowledge of what was in the amendments was kept secret, while its solutions and "compromises" were spun on the air and web.

      HB 1021 is for a study of the database and the creation of the committee that will study the topic. Seems innocent, but I'm concerned there will be some tie-back language in the committee's version of SB 2315, and how it was tagged onto a normal appropriations bill. We'll keep watch. Plus, it will give the proponents their "proof of concept" which has been greatly lacking over this session when they reconvene in 2021.

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      just the fact that a few lobbyists and politicians want this so damn bad that they're being this shifty tells me it's bad medicine

      this is NOT about the hassle of posting - or even trespassing

      what's REALLY driving this?

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      If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles.
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      Quote Originally Posted by guywhofishes View Post
      just the fact that a few lobbyists and politicians want this so damn bad that they're being this shifty tells me it's bad medicine

      this is NOT about the hassle of posting - or even trespassing

      what's REALLY driving this?
      Thats a great question. I never thought about it this way

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      I mean who the hell "goes to war" over putting up posters?

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      Quote Originally Posted by guywhofishes View Post
      just the fact that a few lobbyists and politicians want this so damn bad that they're being this shifty tells me it's bad medicine

      this is NOT about the hassle of posting - or even trespassing

      what's REALLY driving this?
      Let's see, the GOVERNMENT wants a database of alllll the landowners in North Dakota, complete with contact information.

      I'd say it smells of gerrymandering....

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      Remember to always practice CPR: Catch, Pickle and Refrigerate!

    8. Back To Top    #8
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      (asking for myself... a landowner)

      - - - Updated - - -

      If I knew - maybe I'd switch positions - cuz it's going to make me a rich man.

      - - - Updated - - -

      I'd just have to remove all the mirrors from my home so I could stand being with myself.

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      If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles.
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    9. Back To Top    #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by guywhofishes View Post
      I mean who the hell "goes to war" over putting up posters?
      Guy,
      I posed the same question to Fritz. I wish he could just be honest with all of us on what this is really about. What's in it for him and his crew? Do they hate sportsmen that much? A lot of questions behind this whole thing. How the hell do they get our legislators to buy into this narrative?

      Fish On!

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      Thanks again,

      well this is my first source for what i consider credible info. sometimes gota sort through the banter but you and firone seem to post legit stuff. wife was asking me about the bill and figured i would try to claifry it for her

      I watched the vote live last week and when one particular women asked about retrieving game if A passes and B doesnt one gentleman stood up rather angerly and said no you would need permission then another person cited section 6 and said no you would be able to retrieve game if you legal shot it on ground you could hunt....really made me think no one really knows what the hell there voting for...…

      thanks again guys

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    11. Back To Top    #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by guywhofishes View Post
      what's REALLY driving this?
      $$$$$

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      #illegitimate hunter

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      Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Jimbo View Post
      $$$$$
      yes, or power I suppose (they go hand in hand)

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      If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles.
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    13. Back To Top    #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by jdinny View Post


      im extremely retarded .
      fixed it for ya!

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    14. Back To Top    #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by Phill Latio View Post
      fixed it for ya!
      haha go back to work dueshy

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    15. Back To Top    #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by TFX 186 View Post
      Guy,
      I posed the same question to Fritz. I wish he could just be honest with all of us on what this is really about. What's in it for him and his crew? Do they hate sportsmen that much? A lot of questions behind this whole thing. How the hell do they get our legislators to buy into this narrative?

      Fish On!
      They buy into it because most aren’t very smart, many are bought and paid for and many are in this only for their own self serving reasons.

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    16. Back To Top    #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by guywhofishes View Post
      just the fact that a few lobbyists and politicians want this so damn bad that they're being this shifty tells me it's bad medicine

      this is NOT about the hassle of posting - or even trespassing

      what's REALLY driving this?
      Just my perspective for what its worth. Back in the 1950s thru 1970s duckstamp $$ went to USFW to purchase rapidly disappearing wetlands in the Prairie Pothole region. DU played an major role. Willing seller-willing buyer. DU also donated into USFW programs to fund permanent conservation easements to save wetland habitats on private land. When that land transferred/sold to another operator the easement restrictions went with it. State farm groups shut down willing seller-willing buyer in the 80s by changing state law.

      This still drove Farm Bureau nuts as permanent easements prevented the destruction of wetlands. In their view a buyer could buy farmland with wetlands cheaper, drain, and it would be worth more. They didn't give a *^&% who they dumped that water on. Along with that various conservation/hunting groups bargained for restrictions on draining and breaking new ground in the Federal Farm Bill in return for supporting USDA farm programs. When CRP came in that program drove farm groups nuts too, never mind that it served to keep the land price up and grain prices too. Both Stockmen and NDFB railed against CRP even though they depended on what was basically cheap hay in drought years.


      As populations shift to urban centers farm group clout is losing voters.They are looking for an issue to rally their base, a bogeyman or scapegoat and in their eyes by attacking ND hunters they can take revenge on conservation groups.


      Back in the 80s Farm Bureau launched their “it will be all posted”drive protesting Swamp Buster. Then they repeated with the same thing protesting low wheat prices. And repeated again later over restrictions on guiding and outfitting. And repeated again (still same land) over posting regulations today. It didn't work but it won't change. Farm Bureau shoved through this bill in Idaho a few years ago and they have the bit in their teeth.


      But they don't have the votes in ND if sportsmen stick together.

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      Last edited by fireone; 04-16-2019 at 12:20 PM.

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      farmers try to sell their hogwash under the guise of cheap food. well we don't have cheap food

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      Quote Originally Posted by guywhofishes View Post
      just the fact that a few lobbyists and politicians want this so damn bad that they're being this shifty tells me it's bad medicine

      this is NOT about the hassle of posting - or even trespassing

      what's REALLY driving this?



      I'll throw my honest 2 cents worth if even if I do get dogpiled . I think there are variety of reasons , Not just one. Some is pure orneriness no doubt about that and there truly are parcels of solid timber in ND that haven't been pastured in 50 years where it's dang near impossible to properly post, Few and far between but they do exist.

      I think mostly landowners are tired of people that don't have two licks of common sense doing little things and they don't realize how a bunch of people doing a bunch of "little" things can eventually add up to a big thing. Stuff like cars parked in the way for field equipment , Gates left open ,garbage dumped , target shooters shooting at old cars and farm equipment, Grab a few parts off an old car that nobody is using, Cut a couple trees for firewood since there are so many etc. It's all real stuff and it happens .

      None of it is necessarily done by hunters but people that just don't have enough common sense to think about their actions. I feel for those in the middle of the bakken , They had a pretty good lifestyle going before the oil boom and all of a sudden they have a mix of squatters , thieves and good people everywhere they look. I'm guessing a lot of them went from leaving keys and guns in the pickup overnight just a few years ago to having to lock everything up tight as a drum and still sleeping with one eye open. I can relate somewhat to that being in a recreational community and close to a reservation. Times have changed tremendously in the last 10-15 years where I live. Don't get me wrong, I have some great Native American friends but when you congregation a bunch of people from any walk of life you get a few bad apples.

      The sad thing is that sportsmen that play by the rules are paying the ultimate price , The natural thing and the right thing is to oppose anything that is anti hunting , Until I see the final draft and read it with my own eyes I won't take anyone's word if 2315 is anything close to what people claim it's "going" to be. Where the fuses burn fast and the opposition and friction get hot between hunters and landowners is when hunters tell landowners that there is no problem and to piss off. Some landowners are fortunate that they don't have problems others not so lucky. I'm telling you boys , For the future of the sport we need to try to work this out the best we can with property owners instead of against property owners because the ones having problems and getting overrun by a bunch of people doing little things don't like to be told that there is no problem, I'm one of them so I can relate to that feeling. That's my take on what I see of it , I have never claimed to have an answer I want to see what the final draft of 2315 is before I say if I support it or not but I am in favor of doing something VS nothing. Haven't had time to discuss or even think much about what has been said as far as solving the problem been too busy arguing whether I have a problem or not .

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      United we stand Divided we fall.

    19. Back To Top    #19
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      I didn't see or hear anyone telling landowners that there's no problem and to piss off. I've seen almost everyone say that this bill won't solve any of the problems you just mentioned. You said it yourself that the problem is vandals.

      What I have seen on social media and by representatives at the capital, is a small group of landowners telling sportsmen to piss off. That hunters are scum who do nothing but pillage land, who act entitled to do as they please wherever. The short game of this bill was about putting hunters in their place to them, reminding them of the privilege to hunt game. The long game is to remove outdoorsman opposition to the big ag groups.

      There was compromise in this bill's division. Trespassers are more easily removed from land, while those with a valid hunting license may still enter unposted land to hunt. The fact that that isn't good enough says a lot. Another reason this bill was BS was the sunset clause. Add to that, there was no economic study for any part of it. Again I say this as a hunter / landowner, the way this was pushed was BS. I'm comfortable saying this because I know most landowners aren't worked up about this. Most post their land if they don't want people out there and that works for them. If you eat up everything the FB tells you or have some other vested interest in this bill then you may see it different.

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      "I think mostly landowners are tired of people that don't have two licks of common sense doing little things and they don't realize how a bunch of people doing a bunch of "little" things can eventually add up to a big thing. Stuff like cars parked in the way for field equipment , Gates left open ,garbage dumped , target shooters shooting at old cars and farm equipment, Grab a few parts off an old car that nobody is using, Cut a couple trees for firewood since there are so many etc. It's all real stuff and it happens ."




      This is the problem. How is passing this bill going to stop ANY OF THIS?

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