Burke County Wind Farm Denied

ndlongshot

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Can't the samething be said about farming??
Farming/Agriculture has and always will exist. But if we took the government out of it...it would go through a hard reset and come out the other side stronger than ever.

Land; they ain't making any more of it. And if you got it, you got something.
 


fly2cast

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You forgot to figure the crusher needed to make gravel , the trucks to haul it, loafers and equipment to place everything, concrete trucks to haul concrete to each base which takes over 330 yards. Then we also need all the inputs for concrete materials. There are pick ups and semis to haul. Also multiple dozers to do dirt work. That equipment on average probably burns 8 plus gallons per hour conservatively. You need to see the big picture
.

Come one, I'm guessing you are trying to bait me. Nobody is saying that renewable energy is 100% free and takes absolutely no input costs. NOBODY.

However if you want to go that route why don't you take a look at a coal fired plant. How much resources go into making one of those? Do you know how much metal is in one of those plants? Do you know how huge those buildings are? On top of that, how much energy goes into removing the coal from the ground and transporting it to the plant, EVERY DAY? Are you kidding me? Trying to say input costs for wind turbines is high? Are you on crack? Sure it takes some input costs. What doesn't? But it's tiny compared to the input costs of many types of power.

I get that wind and solar can't be the only solution. Duh. But why be so political about the issue. You guys are just spewing talking points of some conservatives. Again, I have conservative values. I voted for Donald Trump and never have voted for a Democrat. But I'm also a thinker and don't tow the party line. You guys, quit being tribal about environmental issues. They aren't left or right issues. The left doesn't have good solutions either. Use your head.

I'm not saying you can't have negative opinions about wind turbines. There are drawbacks. Sure. Every type of energy has drawbacks. But we have to move forward on more renewable resources. Can't keep just removing them from the ground and burning them.
 

Trip McNeely

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There are plenty of input costs associated with extracting coal/oil/gas as well.... but at the end of the day its our cheapest most reliable form of energy. Until wind/solar can compete in an around the same price per kwh as coal/gas without massive subsidies they can pound sand for all I care. Im less about the feel goods and more about the common sense. You can call it political if you like. Many of us are “ thinkers” as well. And we think wind energy makes little to no sense in regards to the bang for your taxpaying buck.
 

fly2cast

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Kurtr

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Come one, I'm guessing you are trying to bait me. Nobody is saying that renewable energy is 100% free and takes absolutely no input costs. NOBODY.

However if you want to go that route why don't you take a look at a coal fired plant. How much resources go into making one of those? Do you know how much metal is in one of those plants? Do you know how huge those buildings are? On top of that, how much energy goes into removing the coal from the ground and transporting it to the plant, EVERY DAY? Are you kidding me? Trying to say input costs for wind turbines is high? Are you on crack? Sure it takes some input costs. What doesn't? But it's tiny compared to the input costs of many types of power.

I get that wind and solar can't be the only solution. Duh. But why be so political about the issue. You guys are just spewing talking points of some conservatives. Again, I have conservative values. I voted for Donald Trump and never have voted for a Democrat. But I'm also a thinker and don't tow the party line. You guys, quit being tribal about environmental issues. They aren't left or right issues. The left doesn't have good solutions either. Use your head.

I'm not saying you can't have negative opinions about wind turbines. There are drawbacks. Sure. Every type of energy has drawbacks. But we have to move forward on more renewable resources. Can't keep just removing them from the ground and burning them.

When will coal be all gone? Maybe by that time they can make wind an economical option but right now its not. its a feel good thing just like corn ethanol. There are way better products available to make ethanol than corn.
 


TFX 186

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I read that the PSC sited the Emmons County wind farm. I haven't seen much on the news about it. Does anyone in the area know what the status is in that project? I had heard a snippet that the project was sold to a different developer? Is there any news on this one proceeding or is it on hold?
For what it's worth, I think Fly makes some sense with not having all your eggs in one basket. Don't bash him but do have conversation. He is a fellow conservative and has views we should at least listen to and discuss. Like it or not, change is going to happen everywhere. Energy dependence will benefit us all. If the Dems happen to win in this election cycle, they are coming after coal fired power plants hard, again. Maybe if we could show as a state that we are willing to bend from just coal, there is some bargaining power. At least some forward thinking going on.

Fish On!
 
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emerald

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wind doesn't blow, the future is natural gas fired elec. plants , with natural gas, of which we have an over abundance
 

dean nelson

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For those of you who say that we should stop subsidizing wind, I would agree. Forbes has several good articles about. At this point, its cheaper to produce wind energy than coal. I get why they started to subsidize - it brought down the costs of wind energy dramatically. But now it should stop.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/domini...ost-effective-fossil-fuels-2020/#57b951ec4ff2
https://www.forbes.com/sites/uhenergy/2018/03/23/renewable-energy-subsidies-yes-or-no/#3f73cdb46e23
Wind is a f****** non-starter! I mentioned this before but if you do the numbers Global energy use goes up by an annual rate of 2% covering that 2% you would need to erect over 300,000 wind turbines per year which is more than we have ever been assembled and it would cover an area roughly the size of England with three wind towers per square mile. That means in 50 years you would have covered an area of damn near the size of Russia with wind turbines and you still would only have taken care of the annual increase not the principal which is unbelievably massive. Wind will never work because we will literally have to cover the surface of the planet with the things. And unfortunately technology-wise they are now close to reaching Peak efficiency unless they come up with a completely new way of doing it.

If you want to go off in a happy Crazy Land about best energy sources for the future the only true route is hydrogen. Creates no pollution generating it generates no pollution while using it comes from water turns back into water so it is ultimately recyclable and we would never run out. Go off Saudi Arabia and build yourself a big ass solar plant that you can hook to your big ass hydrogen plant and you can make fuel without generating any precious greenhouse gases.

But I don't know about you but I for one living here in North Dakota am a fairly big fan of global warming those warmer winters definitely don't suck!
 
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fly2cast

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Unless you guys can prove otherwise, wind is cheaper than coal to produce energy. Yes, it's not windy every day and therefore we need other types of power production. Wind isn't just a feel good thing we do. It produces cheap energy. Should it be subsidized. Probably not.

I think most of you have this perception that wind and solar are mostly inefficient and can't produce enough power to make a difference. That is wrong. Wind and solar and battery technologies have made HUGE increases in efficiencies. We aren't living in the 70s anymore. This stuff is real. If you guys did the research you would see the exponential growth we are having in these technologies. It is the future. Right now, you are right, we don't have storage capacities and need some fossil fuel capacity. Battery technology has come a long, long way and it is the future. Don't make this a political issue. We are on this hunting and fishing site because we love the outdoors. We are the true conservationists of the world. Work together to make this earth a better place. Even though you don't agree with the liberals on how it should be done, don't discount these technologies. Support them as much as possible. We all want the same thing but have different ways of achieving those goals.
 

westwolfone

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No one has mentioned Nuclear power?

Remember when they told us everything would be solar powered by now?
 


Kurtr

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Unless you guys can prove otherwise, wind is cheaper than coal to produce energy. Yes, it's not windy every day and therefore we need other types of power production. Wind isn't just a feel good thing we do. It produces cheap energy. Should it be subsidized. Probably not.

I think most of you have this perception that wind and solar are mostly inefficient and can't produce enough power to make a difference. That is wrong. Wind and solar and battery technologies have made HUGE increases in efficiencies. We aren't living in the 70s anymore. This stuff is real. If you guys did the research you would see the exponential growth we are having in these technologies. It is the future. Right now, you are right, we don't have storage capacities and need some fossil fuel capacity. Battery technology has come a long, long way and it is the future. Don't make this a political issue. We are on this hunting and fishing site because we love the outdoors. We are the true conservationists of the world. Work together to make this earth a better place. Even though you don't agree with the liberals on how it should be done, don't discount these technologies. Support them as much as possible. We all want the same thing but have different ways of achieving those goals.


Your right i like duck and goose hunting and wind towers are bad for them. Because of a coal plant and its warm water ponds i shot my first goose over at big stone. You are the only one making this a political thing i havnt seen any one else even mention it. Now just use tribal and nuance a few more times and it will be like we are on a meat eater podcast with ben obrian
 

fly2cast

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Its only political in the fact that many of you spew the same rhetoric that many of the right wing politicians make. I guess what I don't understand is why so many people would be opposed to the idea of using wind to make electricity yet aren't out there protesting the petroleum and coal industry using the same rhetoric that have ruined the landscape of western North Dakota? It seems like a no-brainer to me.

You hate the look of windmills? Do you think they are uglier than the power plants, the land stripping of coal, and the drill rigs that dot the landscape?
 

MuleyMadness

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Its only political in the fact that many of you spew the same rhetoric that many of the right wing politicians make. I guess what I don't understand is why so many people would be opposed to the idea of using wind to make electricity yet aren't out there protesting the petroleum and coal industry using the same rhetoric that have ruined the landscape of western North Dakota? It seems like a no-brainer to me.

You hate the look of windmills? Do you think they are uglier than the power plants, the land stripping of coal, and the drill rigs that dot the landscape?

Drilling rigs go away after a few weeks and leave behind a small scoria lot with a few tanks and pumping units on it. I cannot see that from over the hill. Are there a lot of them...sure. Im in western ND and we do not have strip mining or big power plants so I cannot speak for the other 2. But when I sit at the top of a hill watching mule deer in the badlands and see small red squared and a few small tanks it is a hell of a lot better than seeing 300 foot wind turbines 15 miles away nowhere near where I am sitting.
 

Kurtr

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Its only political in the fact that many of you spew the same rhetoric that many of the right wing politicians make. I guess what I don't understand is why so many people would be opposed to the idea of using wind to make electricity yet aren't out there protesting the petroleum and coal industry using the same rhetoric that have ruined the landscape of western North Dakota? It seems like a no-brainer to me.

You hate the look of windmills? Do you think they are uglier than the power plants, the land stripping of coal, and the drill rigs that dot the landscape?

once the land is reclaimed from the mine it makes great habitat. Msha makes sure of it. The plants are alot less intrusive than a bunch of wind towers. I have not spewed any rhetoric just what i have seen being involved in building of a few different wind farms.
 


fly2cast

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Well I disagree I like the look of wind turbines. You don't see the land stripping from coal and the power plants where you live but you sure benefit from them. Must be nice to not have these industries in your backyard.
 

tikkalover

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SUBSIDIZED= Having part of the production paid in order to keep the cost low (WIND,geo thermal??etc.)
Will someone please subsidize my fishing habit!!!#$%^&>

So is this why they have what looks like over a 100 stored about a mile northeast of Minot? The manufacture is subsidized, so they keep making them and storing them all over the place even if they don't have a place to erect them?
 

Kurtr

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Well I disagree I like the look of wind turbines. You don't see the land stripping from coal and the power plants where you live but you sure benefit from them. Must be nice to not have these industries in your backyard.

I have a wind farm i can see from my house 20 miles north on some of the best river hills around not so much any more. The striping will be reclaimed and is not a long term eye sore like the wind towers . My brother in law works in one of the mines in wyoming and sends me pictures of 180" mule deer as the deer love the reclaimed area and has made for some great wintering grounds for them. They have made a system of culverts for the deer to move through so they dont get caught in fences. As much as people like to vilify coal mines the industry has came along ways with msha watching and regulating to make sure wildlife and environment is taken care of. Who is the regulating agency that is in charge of making sure wind towers are not affecting the migratory routes of waterfowl?

- - - Updated - - -

So is this why they have what looks like over a 100 stored about a mile northeast of Minot? The manufacture is subsidized, so they keep making them and storing them all over the place even if they don't have a place to erect them?

I was on that job when they were being built talk about a total shit show charlie fox trot
 

huntinforfish

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If you’re going to grammar police this site, you better put in a request for overtime. Best to relax, and realize you know exactly what people mean, regardless of minor syntax errors and proper use of apostrophes.

Bahahaha, yeah! What a prick. No biggie, he's a friend and I can take it!
 

fly2cast

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Whatever, I'm done arguing what looks prettier. If you like the look of power plants and dug up land from your house, I don't understand it but everyone is different. Unless of course you can't see the power plants and dug up land from your house and are only bitching because you see wind turbines, then you have to ask yourself are you bitching because you don't want it in your backyard and would rather have it in someone elses backyard. Because from where I live in north Bismarck, I see a power plant. I would much rather have the wind turbines.
 


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