Burke County Wind Farm Denied

fly2cast

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If the wind towers actually helped the environment they might make sense. The inputs that go into them then along with the lack of longevity they can produce makes them a feel good band aid on a gaping wound.

How much diesel is burned just to build them? I would like to know if that has ever been broke down

I don't know the answer but do you really believe that it actually takes more fuel to make a windmill than it makes over it's lifetime? Honestly do you think it's close?

I did some calculations based on info I found on the internet. From what I found, .0016 barrels of residential fuel oil makes 1 kWh. A windmill can produce up to 1.5 Megawatts in a year but generally will make about .5 Megawatts because of wind conditions. Converting .0016 barrels per 1KWh to years, I estimate it takes about 14,000 barrels to make one megawatt per year. Divide that in half for .5 megawatts and you get that it takes about 7000 barrels in a year to produce what one turbine will produce in a year. I don't know how much diesel fuel it takes to make a turbine but I'm guessing it's not 7000 barrels. Even if it was 14000 barrels, the turbines get built once and can last many years.

My question to you Kurtr is how much diesel is burned just to get the oil or coal out of the ground and to the powerplant? How much diesel is burned to build that power plant?
 


Colt45

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Lots of evil fossil fuels are used to prop up wind energy, only reason any of it exists is to collect the handsome tax incentive subsidies. Its kinda like a farm bill on steroids.
Here is a fossil fuel helicopter being deployed to de-ice wind turbine blades so they generate "green' energy.

de-icing-wind-turbine.jpg
 

Fly Carpin

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If you’re going to grammar police this site, you better put in a request for overtime. Best to relax, and realize you know exactly what people mean, regardless of minor syntax errors and proper use of apostrophes.
 

Retired Educator

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From a different standpoint. How does a bird ( or most birds) ever fly into a windmill? They turn at a very slow speed, regardless of the wind speed. An eagle or hawk can spot a mouse in the areas from a 100' in the air but can't see the blades of turbine? Whether you like the looks of them is personal and doesn't really make sense as an argument against them. I find the new power lines that look like giant scarecrows with lines running for mile after mile much uglier, but that's my personal opinion. There is one in the county where I live and when first proposed it was supposed to add a significant amount of tax income to the county and schools in that district. Then the legislature changed the rules and amounted to very little, barely a break-even for either entity. The landowner do receive a fair payment for the towers on their property but as I see it, they are the only ones benefitting from the towers. I don't know the exact amount of payment in this area but I wonder how much extra they receive when you consider the amount of land taken out of production plus the hassle of farming around the towers and roads. It does eliminate the use of aerial spray application. If shelterbelts were a pain to farm around, imagine a quarter of land with 2-4 wind towers and roads.

As far as property rights it might seem that each landowner gets to decide what to do with his/her property. That seems fair until your decisions begin to affect the neighbors. Kind of like draining water; Do you have the right to drain water onto a neighbors property? Property rights only go so far when the actions affect others. Isn't that one of the big arguments with the Fargo Flood Protection? Who gets to hold the water until it can flow at a reasonable level through the Fargo area. Or if it goes through to qulckly, who does it affect further north. All actions have consequences.
 


dean nelson

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From a different standpoint. How does a bird ( or most birds) ever fly into a windmill? They turn at a very slow speed, regardless of the wind speed. An eagle or hawk can spot a mouse in the areas from a 100' in the air but can't see the blades of turbine? Whether you like the looks of them is personal and doesn't really make sense as an argument against them. I find the new power lines that look like giant scarecrows with lines running for mile after mile much uglier, but that's my personal opinion. There is one in the county where I live and when first proposed it was supposed to add a significant amount of tax income to the county and schools in that district. Then the legislature changed the rules and amounted to very little, barely a break-even for either entity. The landowner do receive a fair payment for the towers on their property but as I see it, they are the only ones benefitting from the towers. I don't know the exact amount of payment in this area but I wonder how much extra they receive when you consider the amount of land taken out of production plus the hassle of farming around the towers and roads. It does eliminate the use of aerial spray application. If shelterbelts were a pain to farm around, imagine a quarter of land with 2-4 wind towers and roads.

As far as property rights it might seem that each landowner gets to decide what to do with his/her property. That seems fair until your decisions begin to affect the neighbors. Kind of like draining water; Do you have the right to drain water onto a neighbors property? Property rights only go so far when the actions affect others. Isn't that one of the big arguments with the Fargo Flood Protection? Who gets to hold the water until it can flow at a reasonable level through the Fargo area. Or if it goes through to qulckly, who does it affect further north. All actions have consequences.
How do birds hit them....it's pretty simple you have a blade that looks slow but is in fact going nearly 200 mph at the tips. And this is what it looks like.

https://youtu.be/8NAAzBArYdw
 

Jigaman

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Can we please stop calling them "windmills"? Wind turbines is the correct term. Carry on.
 

roosterfish

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SUBSIDIZED= Having part of the production paid in order to keep the cost low (WIND,geo thermal??etc.)
Will someone please subsidize my fishing habit!!!#$%^&>
 

Fracman

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SUBSIDIZED= Having part of the production paid in order to keep the cost low (WIND,geo thermal??etc.)
Will someone please subsidize my fishing habit!!!#$%^&>

You could say that your fishing habit is already subsidized with the fish being stocked into your favorite fishing pond
 


Kurtr

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I don't know the answer but do you really believe that it actually takes more fuel to make a windmill than it makes over it's lifetime? Honestly do you think it's close?

I did some calculations based on info I found on the internet. From what I found, .0016 barrels of residential fuel oil makes 1 kWh. A windmill can produce up to 1.5 Megawatts in a year but generally will make about .5 Megawatts because of wind conditions. Converting .0016 barrels per 1KWh to years, I estimate it takes about 14,000 barrels to make one megawatt per year. Divide that in half for .5 megawatts and you get that it takes about 7000 barrels in a year to produce what one turbine will produce in a year. I don't know how much diesel fuel it takes to make a turbine but I'm guessing it's not 7000 barrels. Even if it was 14000 barrels, the turbines get built once and can last many years.

My question to you Kurtr is how much diesel is burned just to get the oil or coal out of the ground and to the powerplant? How much diesel is burned to build that power plant?

You forgot to figure the crusher needed to make gravel , the trucks to haul it, loafers and equipment to place everything, concrete trucks to haul concrete to each base which takes over 330 yards. Then we also need all the inputs for concrete materials. There are pick ups and semis to haul. Also multiple dozers to do dirt work. That equipment on average probably burns 8 plus gallons per hour conservatively. You need to see the big picture
.
 

Motor Mouse

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Fly2cast

First of all I have been in the coal industry for 42 years. Wind by itself is a liberal approach without science or reason. With that said wind is viable as a part of power diversity and will make even more sense as storage technology advances. With that said we need to advance technology in grid stability. Solar and wind has no value in stabilizing the grid! You need rotating mass or other solutions but the renewable free ride now is just plain ignorance! Tax credits for wind should cease immediately with out phase out or refurbish loop holes!
So why I posted? Check your math! Or at least engineering units, I did not give time to check your math! 1.5 MW per year. Come on now! Most new turbines are 1.5 MW per hour with a near 45 to 50% capacity factor in ND.
 

Motor Mouse

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Nope not cheap. Something like $23/MWhr tax credit (it is phasing out) for wind. The wind farms can dump power to the grid for free or at a loss and kick coal generations ass! BUT what do you do when it is too cold for a wind turbine to run or the wind is not blowing???? Um maybe coal fired plants do have a purpose in the future?
 

eyexer

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who in their right mind would support an industry that wouldn't exist without subsidies
 


guywhofishes

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8-15% or some such is lost getting electric power to the consumer

not sure how much natural gas, propane, or heating fuel is lost in transmission to the customer
 

fly2cast

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Fly2cast

First of all I have been in the coal industry for 42 years. Wind by itself is a liberal approach without science or reason. With that said wind is viable as a part of power diversity and will make even more sense as storage technology advances. With that said we need to advance technology in grid stability. Solar and wind has no value in stabilizing the grid! You need rotating mass or other solutions but the renewable free ride now is just plain ignorance! Tax credits for wind should cease immediately with out phase out or refurbish loop holes!
So why I posted? Check your math! Or at least engineering units, I did not give time to check your math! 1.5 MW per year. Come on now! Most new turbines are 1.5 MW per hour with a near 45 to 50% capacity factor in ND.

You are only partially correct. The info I used was old. The older wind turbines were typically stated as producing 1.5 mW per year but typically would only produce .5 mWatts per year. According to this article, the new ones produce more. https://www.wind-watch.org/faq-output.php However, they do not produce megawatts per day. It's per year, not day.
 


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