Big Fish vs Big Critter

Bowhunter_24

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I think it all depends on what u consider equal.

A 200" deer is not very obtainable just because they are super super rare.

You can luck into big deer and big fish.

When a guy catches multiple big fish every year or shoots a big deer every year it's a lot of skill/time and knowledge.

If you consider a 150" whitetail big and have some of the best land to hunt and "manage" it you will kill one every year.

Everyone has access to the same lakes.

One thing that sucks is if you are rich you can kill big animals of every kind every year.

In conclusion I don't know.
 


guywhofishes

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Do you guys think natives ever had the "luxury" of trophy hunting at all?

Or was it mainly whatever was easiest and most plentiful died?

I could see Johnny Red Feather catching a lot of hell for focusing on big racks and occasionally coming home empty-handed.
 

Captain Ahab

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Do you guys think natives ever had the "luxury" of trophy hunting at all?

Or was it mainly whatever was easiest and most plentiful died?

I could see Johnny Red Feather catching a lot of hell for focusing on big racks and occasionally coming home empty-handed.


Yeah, but who got more Indigenous Women?
 
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SDMF

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Single-trophy luck, is just that, luck. Can happen to anyone who even unwittingly puts themselves into the right place at the right time.

Neither are cheap, and certainly not if you're going to obtain multiple trophies. You have to spend time "where they are" and that usually means lots of travel.

Regarding fish trophies: Even if you live on a premier body of water full-time, you're going to likely put 100's if not thousands of miles on a boat getting 2-5MPG or an ATV/SxS/Snowmobile not getting much better for every one trophy fish. Really catch the "bug" and it means traveling to Winnipeg, Eire, LOW, Tobin, The Columbia, etc, etc, etc. with all your gear in tow or paying someone for their gear/services when you get there. Expensive, time-consuming, but, doable annually assuming you have the $$ and time.

Regarding let's say mammal trophies: You still have to hunt where they are. Even someone hunting "local" puts on hundreds if not thousands of miles and hours setting/checking trail cams, stands, etc for every 1 trophy animal. Then start to factor in tag availability and land access within the premiere destinations for each species and IMO, trophy mammals are exponentially more difficult. There are species and places where no amount of $$ gets you around the number of points it requires to draw a tag, and at 45, even if I had the $$, I already probably don't have the time to draw before I'm physically unable to complete some hunts.

Mammal trophies, much more difficult IMO.
 

guywhofishes

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so let's say you were magically teleported to within "taking distance" of a trophy of either flavor

which one is easier to close the deal on?

the mammal... cuz you can see it and it doesn't have to be "in the mood" to be taken
 


Captain Ahab

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You pick a trophy animal of any kind and size. If you stroke a check big enough and got a little time, your going to get your hands on one.
 

SDMF

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so let's say you were magically teleported to within "taking distance" of a trophy of either flavor

which one is easier to close the deal on?

the mammal... cuz you can see it and it doesn't have to be "in the mood" to be taken

If you magically make the mammal easier than the fish, then the mammal is easier.

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You pick a trophy animal of any kind and size. If you stroke a check big enough and got a little time, your going to get your hands on one.

Try to buy a Missouri Breaks BigHorn Sheep (Best genetics available for that species) or New Mexico Ibex tag and let me know how that works out for you.
 

shorthairman

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Just too many variables either way, and if 100 people see this, you will get 100 different interpretations.

That being said...personally it would be/is harder for me to bag a trophy deer and I am talking 150+...

As KDM said, Erie is full of 28" plus walleye and for that matter Green Bay is loaded as well. You guys catch trophies out of the Missouri system every year...and you all predicted that the ND state record was going to fall because of all the big fish in the system. I could drive to Erie and fish, or anywhere north of Oahe dam to look for trophy walleye. I don't have access to land that produces 150" deer unless someone pushes one my way...

Also for what it is worth...people are growing big fish...maybe not walleye, but I've heard the next world record largemouth bass will be out of a private lake where that bass was "grown". Other predators to compete for food removed, and fed a steady diet of goodies to make it grow to optimal size.

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If you magically make the mammal easier than the fish, then the mammal is easier.

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Try to buy a Missouri Breaks BigHorn Sheep (Best genetics available for that species) or New Mexico Ibex tag and let me know how that works out for you.

I think Captain Ahab meant tag was already obtained...but I am just guessing...
 

Captain Ahab

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Try to buy a Missouri Breaks BigHorn Sheep (Best genetics available for that species) or New Mexico Ibex tag and let me know how that works out for you.[/QUOTE]


I’m sure those are difficult, but now you are picking spots. Go overseas for Ibex. Not sure on rams.

I get where you are coming from as far as coveted hunts in certain areas though Clay.
 
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guywhofishes

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If you magically make the mammal easier than the fish, then the mammal is easier.

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Try to buy a Missouri Breaks BigHorn Sheep (Best genetics available for that species) or New Mexico Ibex tag and let me know how that works out for you.

The tag part relies on luck and persistence.
 


SDMF

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Try to buy a Missouri Breaks BigHorn Sheep (Best genetics available for that species) or New Mexico Ibex tag and let me know how that works out for you.


I’m sure those are difficult, but now you are picking spots.

Hunting trophies takes hunting them where they are, just like fishing for trophies. So drawing tags/picking spots is a part of the equation.

If you want to catch a giant lake Stugeon are you going to beat your head against a rock fishing the Red or are you going to go to the Rainy in the spring/fall? Same could be said for Paddlefish (sub Yellowstone/Missouri for Rainy), especially now that you need to draw a tag.........

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The tag part relies on luck and persistence.

And $$, and time, and drawing the tag in a year when the previous winter didn't wipe out a populations, and, and, and, and..............

You can catch a Zander from shore on Spiritwood with no more than a bobber/minnow. You don't even need a fishing license if you're under 16. You need a tag and have a much shorter window for even the ubiquitous whitetail.
 
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Captain Ahab

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Bottom line is they all are a "Trophy" because they are not easily attained. Some are more "Trophyesh" than others.
 


SDMF

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I wonder if there are more 150+ WT shot each year or more 10+ walleyes?

Biggest factor there is the health of Oahe. 2nd biggest factor is runoff/levels in the James, Sheyenne, Red, and DL Basin.

On a good spring/fall run, the 10# walleyes could easily be 5:1 over 150" whitetails.
 

Kurtr

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I am a below average fisherman and have a 8 and 10 pound walleye and a 22 pound northern. Had all those by the time i was 24

All i hunt is public land for mule deer and some private for whitetail and it took me 18 years to get a mule deer that hit 180 and 14 to get a white tail to hit 160. And i put in way more time and effort into deer hunting.

I am a super below average elk hunter like 0-3 on otc public land hunts. I will tell you a spike will be more of a trophy to me than both the deer just because of how hard it is. Might even shoulder mount the son of a bitch but dont know that my wife has to much to worry about. guess we will find out in the next few weeks.

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i can hike and camp with the best of them though
 

luvcatchingbass

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Had plenty of drive time today after reading the beginning of the conversation so I started thinking. Obviously some of this depends on what one considers a trophy and of what species. If I seclude myself to just one area where I grew up hunting WT and fishing the Sheyenne for Catfish and Walleye with the gear I had the at time growing up, which was really considered budget back then and in some cases probably poverty to some now. Keep in mind that I am very lucky to have a diverse area and both my hunting and fishing grounds were at most 2mi away so this is basically an attempt to take the $$$ out of equation and with good quality of the quarry with the potential of true pat on the back trophies existing so it boils down to time spent after each "trophy"
The hunting gear
-Cheap work boots (insulated and non) kept well oiled--multi use for hunting and fishing
-Jeans and long johns -- also multi uses
-Cheapest I could find camo pants
-Cheapest I could find camo shirt, jacket (also orange options
-Hand me down bow, later upgraded bow that I bought all set up from a buddy with arrows
-Arrows that seemed to fly accurately out to 25yds
-Fix blades for arrows that where bought on a budget bin
-Hand me down rifle and handloads for rifle
-Every now and then purchase a box of shells to last me 3yrs

Fishing Gear
-
Boots and Jeans reused from hunting, got smart and bought cheap rubber boots one day
-Bug spray and mesh face net for bugs
-Walmart fishing rods and, or high roller when Fleet Farm had bargain bin rods and reels (Score!!!)
-Spiderwire Line
-Various Jigs and hooks, saved money by starting to cast my own jigs
-Various slip weights for river conditions
-Different lures like plastics and crank baits to try
-Buy bait on occasion but usually went and caught my own minnows and frogs

So if I total everything up for dollar wise I might be pretty close to $300 on each side over time at late high school and college, work with what I had and built up over time.

Now onto the time debate. We raised cattle so many times while out tending to their needs I could do some scouting on the side for deer, flip side while haying I could catch frogs in the low areas and throw them in a bucket---lets call this a wash in these fields
Initially to find my productive spots on the river it was trial and error with many banks walked and presentations attempted with plenty of tackle to be replaced. Once I new where to look for in river conditions, locations and water movement it was not as hard to catch fish and move if needed. These spots produced a 10 and 12# Catfish for me, there may be bigger just never caught one though had something big once that broke me off and one gave a 9+# walleye to a neighbor.
For hunting it took time to learn travel patterns and how conditions can change those, took time learning best big buck potential areas and that not all areas are equal (similar to reading a river). In order to sample these areas I had to physically sit and watch beings I did not have cameras so lots of time glassing and watching till I narrowed down spots and seen the bigger bucks. Now I have to actually find a spot that will be productive for archery or for rifle to get my hopeful target in front of me which takes more time and finding backup spots to make adjustments for the weather on that given day. Trial and error on locations means revamping and learning but the deer don't follow a script very often so it boils down to time in the field in order to even get a chance which leads to many days of many hours sitting, yes you can do drives and knowingly have people influence deer movement but we are talking about full fair chase in my instance. Our area has yielded quite a few deer that many will consider a trophy, I personally have deer form about 130-173 gross (nothing official just what me and a buddy did so take it for what its worth). There has also proven to be some true giants that have slipped past us and others with other hunters connecting on some real brutes that make my big one look OK so the potential is there.
Take your opinion on trophy as you will but this was meant to take as many variables out as possible and do my side by side comparison back when life was way way simpler for me and the game and outdoor opportunities were aplenty if you just got out there, I had so many buddies that hated that I shot really nice buck consistently and claimed it all on location till one friend told them this "yes they have great hunting land but what you guys don't see is the work and time of hours and days that LCB puts into getting opportunities at these deer". FYI no bait, no food plots. Just the natural pastures, crops farmers planted, alfalfa fields and wooded areas.
So to me big game hunting can take more work and more skill set to accomplish success, at least if you use my younger years scenario which I realize is not the modern day norm anymore.

sorry for the long post
 

KDM

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I wonder if there are more 150+ WT shot each year or more 10+ walleyes?


I've got two 30+ inch walleyes to my name so far this year. However, in the 35 years I've hunted the Sheyenne river valley I've seen only ONE legitimate 160 inch white tail which a buddy took with his bow a few years back. I have seen a couple 150's taken though. My money is on the fish. Be a good shits and giggles poll though to see what the peanut gallery thinks.
 

Zogman

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Try to buy a Missouri Breaks BigHorn Sheep (Best genetics available for that species) or New Mexico Ibex tag and let me know how that works out for you.

A good friend drew the NR MB Bighorn after 21 points at 60 or so years old. He is in great shape. He got a very nice one was written up in Eastmans. Got a full size mount.

 


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