69,937 deer tags in 2020

[db-2]

Stated this before:
I applied for my last white tail rifle tag in 1995 and not applied since and have no desire to apply, but have applied for mule deer since then and have gotten three tags.

But got a bow in 1998. (one might be surprise of the number of deer with bow tags that have bullet holes in them)

I do plant plots ever year, have cameras that send the pictures to my computer, have feeders, now due to a rotary cup tear have a cross bow, plant trees and have order 100 evergreens that I will plant and maybe more this spring (80 cents for bare roots at Towner) and other trees. I have tried bow hunting mule deer. It can be done with a bunch of time and work. In fact I have not only spent time on bow hunting but have spent way more time than I ever did with a rifle.

A rancher has allow me exculsive rights to 40 acres in prime country or so in seems this spring. Have already spent a few hours preparing that site. (Found a grave marker from 1886, 3 month old baby boy right next to their land out there that the owner did not know was there)

Since 1998 I have bow 5 bucks. I could of shot 21 since then but have lost all desire to kill (does not help when one names the deer).
I am a shed hunter and if I kill I lose the change for that deer's sheds for the next year. I am also a horn hunter and God made beef and hogs for eating. I also love just sitting and watching with my video camera.

I have gotten a number of reports to fill out for game and fish on my bow hunting.
I would not have a problem to be require to send a report ever year to game and fish about my hunt but not to bring my deer to a check off point. Hunting is very private to me.

But why does one feel the need to bring new rules into my life about bow hunting. It is fine the way it is. You hunt your way and I will hunt my way. If bow hunters have to many advantages just join us. I feel I have contribute more to the deer, their life than I have taken. I could never say that when I was a rifle hunter. db-2

- - - Updated - - -

And I will add:
a lot of those rules propose by one is for their own personal agenda and when the time comes they will not take advantage of the new rule but just feel fine they got their way at the expense of someone else.

 

[8andcounting]

Good point db. I would like to see the mandatory reporting , not bringing a deer anywhere but just simply going onto your account page of the G&f website and click on yes I got a deer or no I did not . Very simple and would be a good tool to let them know how many deer are harvested , just might result in more gun tags given out if they had a better idea

 

[Dirty]

A lot of states and reservations require mandatory reporting from everyone (rather than random sampling like ND) on your big game tag (and other tags...think HIP certification for migratory birds, turkey tags, etc. ) from last season by a certain deadline or you are ineligible to apply for or purchase one for the upcoming season. I would like to see this for all seasons. You would obviously have some error and some liars filling out surveys, but most statistical analysis accounts for this and I would guess most responses would be truthful and accurate. I’ve filled them out before and they are pretty simple and straightforward. Most can be or have to be completed online. Some folks would forget the survey and miss out on a season, just like some get sidetracked and forget to apply for a tag, but I bet that only happens once before that person starts marking the calendar, and hunting seasons should NOT have to be treated like “no child left behind”. If you can’t figure out how to complete a mandatory survey AND a mandatory application on time, you are just SOL. There is NO ONE on earth who doesn’t have access to a smart phone or a private or public computer for a few minutes a year to do this. If you don’t know how, you can call a friend. If you don’t have friends with phones or computers you can go to a public library, a hotel, a coffee shop, etc. or actually just call the Wildlife departments and they will help.

If you don’t have the memory, don’t have the smarts, don’t have the internet access, and don’t have friends...that is strike four and you probably should have been out a long time ago. Getting complete, accurate, timely info on the wildlife populations and success rates should far outweigh any small inconvenience to the people who benefit the most from all of that info.

 

[feather_duster]

North Dakota Game and Fish.....they're something special over there in Bismarck...they couldn't manage a 3 car funeral.

 

[espringers]

why wait to report until after the season or before the next? people would have no motivation to tell the truth. you really want accurate numbers, make them have to call it in or do it online within X number of hours from when you harvest it. say 48 for example. if you are found in possession of a tagged and harvested animal and haven't registered the kill by the deadline... insert creative consequence here...

if you don't harvest an animal, that is a mandatory report as well before the next season's tag gets issued.

caveat, i don't necessarily support mandatory reporting. but, if you are gonna do it, do it right.

 

[Dirty]

why wait to report until after the season or before the next? people would have no motivation to tell the truth. you really want accurate numbers, make them have to call it in or do it online within X number of huours from when you harvest it. say 48 for example. if you are found in possession of a tagged and harvested animal and haven't registered the kill by the deadline... insert creative consequence here...

if you don't harvest an animal, that is a mandatory report as well before the next season's tag gets issued.

caveat, i don't necessarily support mandatory reporting. but, if you are gonna do it, do it right.

The goal would be to get accurate data in time to make educated decisions on the following season only, not to trap people into getting in trouble. The places I’ve dealt with make the deadline for reporting about a month after the season is over but you can report it at any time up to that date. They also send email reminders about the approaching deadline. They do what they can to help folks remember to do it. They WANT the data so it is in their best interests as well to make sure it gets reported. They also want people to be able to apply and hunt. That is how they generate revenue. Again, the goal is not to get people in trouble and it’s not to trick them into missing a season. It is to manage game populations and hinting seasons better.

I don’t associate with one person, NOT ONE, and I know a lot of people, who would in any way be motivated to lie on these surveys. I’m sure there are some shady, stupid people who would, but they are few and far between. I’m confident in that and every good statistical analysis takes this into account.

Also, I take it a step further. I know which surveys I have to complete so on my phone, I log the results of each hunt. This is for my bird hunts, deer hunts, whatever. It takes me 2 minutes in the evening when I’m taking a shit or sitting around with the dog. It is not an inconvenience is my point. Then, when it’s survey time my data is as accurate as can be. This is just my method and is over the top of what is required, but when I look back at the numbers it also helps me relive the hunts. These surveys are not qualifying tests so if you don’t remember how many days you hunted or how many ducks you shot, you simply give an educated guess. But honestly, does anyone forget if they shot a deer or not a couple months ago? If you are motivated to lie on one of these surveys or lose your motivation to tell the truth, you are a shady character to begin with regardless of what is required in life.

 

[espringers]

i'm just trying to satisfy those folks who think them shady bow hunters are obviously trying to down play their success rate and their impact on the herd in order to avoid a lottery or one tag system.

 

[db-2]

I can understand that telling game and fish about a harvest and how that would help in managing the herd for them.
And for all to tell and by phone or computer it would be easy to do. But no sending a picture in of the deer or bring the deer to a check point.

I assume some may lie but I do not understand why they would. Maybe if one is to report right away it makes it somewhat harder to harvest that second or third deer with one tag and for those who have family/friends tags to fill.

Sometimes it's hard to understand what all happens out there and I guess over my lifetime I am not pure either.
A farmer I know had five tags to fill under gratis with all the family members and land. Then he tells me he shot all five deer as he shows a picture of all five bucks on land not under his gratis tag. Has no problem in telling a bunch of us and none of us say a thing and the stories are many.
Like last year grandpa is telling me how his 12 years old grandchild shot this big buck and by the picture it was nice. I did not know a 12 year old could get a rifle tag.

I got 6 points so with a little bit of lot will draw a mule deer as it could be my last. I thought at my age the last one was my last. But I am looking forward to the bow hunt with the new land to hunt on and the picture it may yield. I just hope someones rule change to units for bow hunting does not take that away from me.

I guess I can live with some rule changes but not ones that serve certain people's personal agendas at my expense. db

 

[Obi-Wan]

" I guess I can live with some rule changes but not ones that serve certain people's personal agendas at my expense. " db

But you are ok with keeping the rules the way they are to benefit yourself even though it may be at the expense of others.

 

[db-2]

Obi-wan:

Yes, as those were the rules that came when I started bow hunting. I did not request any to be change for my benefit and have learn to live with them as such. They are what they are and a bow hunter does have some benefits over a rifle hunter. Maybe that is one reason I started bow hunting and it is open to any one that wants to take up a bow.

So, tell me what current rule benefits me as a bow hunter at the expense of others that I want to keep?

The longer season over the rifle hunter?
Shorten it up as I seldom take a bow with me to the stand. Last year it was one time. I am comfortable with say one month in December.
(Yea I know I want it my way)

My range with my cross bow is 30 yards while with my Weatherby it is 300 yards or so? Hell of a benefit over the rifle hunter. Hunting with a bow versus rifle in the rut? I do not think so.

Maybe no units for us bow hunters? That rule was there when I started and yes I want to keep it. My food plots are in three different rifle units. That one I am selfish for but when one has 60000 some odd rifle hunters out for two weeks maybe there is a reason for units for rifle hunters.

Can shoot any deer? Yes I gone mule deer hunting with the bow. None harvested yet but my success rate with the rifle is 100%.

Help me with an answer that any person who wants to bow hunt can not have that I have. It's one choice on the weapon one wants to use. db-2

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe a gratis tag as one that does not own 160 acres? db

 

[db-2]

I would of like to seen some comments on my last post be it whatever.

My statement I have made is that I have never promoted any changes in our current rules be it for a personal agenda or for the good of all. Yes, I have no problem in all filling out the outcome of their harvest but am not jumping up and down for it.
But it would be nice to know just how many deer the bow hunter takes, what is the success ratio. For me it has been 5 in 21 years but it could of been 100% if I ate the meat.

I have live with what is there and have adapted to them. Game and fish has the book learning and I think they can take care of this without my input (but I sometimes wonder on that).

When I started hunting deer in 59 one would get his rifle out of the closet on Friday morning, shoot at a rock on the summer fallow to make sure the rifle is shooting in the right direction, go to coast to coast and get a permit to shot any sex of deer. There were few hunters and also few deer and not sure if there where units back then. It has changed and I did adapted to those changes.

Maybe is 8andcounting would tell me why he wants draws for bow hunters and units I could understand better. I have state why for my benefit I prefer no units. I am not against new rules as I have seen and live with them over the years. Yes obi-wan I will react when someone wants to change but does not tell me why.
Maybe 30000 hunters should be split up over units but it is a season that last 4 months with a bullet that travels under 50 yards for the most part.
As one knows who bow hunts, it is a completed different world out there versus rifle as I found out. Just wish I have gotten in sooner. The old days of rifle hunting, at least for me, had there moments and some that where not the most right but they had moments that a bow hunter has not had. And some of those moments bring back fond memories (at late afternoon, case of beer,(old mill was not around then) turn up the radio to old time rock and roll and cruise while talking stupidly and the deer in rut chasing does on the open prairie).
I do welcome comments be it pro or not. db

 

[Davey Crockett]

db, I was going to pass on posting my opinion but what the heck , I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. I'll address the question " what current rule benefits a bow hunter at the expense of others" ? My answer to that question isn't a popular one on this site but I'm not going to change my opinion just so somebody "likes" me. There are not enough licenses to go around and some people are getting two or more licenses while others get none. A few days ago I found myself in a situation where I was talking my boy into applying for a rifle tag again for this season. After a few years without a license he has lost interest. Anyway , I won't tell anyone what weapon to harvest a deer with and I won't let anyone try to tell me or my family what weapon to use to harvest a deer. Just even out the licenses so as many as possible can carry on the tradition.

 

[Dirty]

I am a bowhunter almost exclusively and I own enough land for a gratis tag AND I actually don’t disagree with you Davey. I’m not going to advocate for the one license system but I’m not against it and I believe it is a good system...one license...good for whatever weapon is legal at the time and your season is over when you fill your tag. If you only hunt with a bow, go buy your tag but then you can’t apply for anything else. If you want a gratis tag, it’s your one and only tag. If you only hunt with a rifle, nothing changes other than there may be a few more licenses available. It is another reason I’d love to see the mandatory game surveys so we could actually determine how many deer licenses actually do get filled in each area.

 

[db-2]

I agree it is a major issue Davey. If not for the bow and only rifle i would of probalby given up year ago. three mule deer permits since 1995.
Yes it seems some get and some never get and and then those who own 160 acres get one every year and for a while they were the only ones getting a buck tag. It does not seem fair but luck of draw and if you own land or not.

My grand daugher got her 15 year buck tag and got a mule deer after i spent 6 days by the bad lands finding some for her. The next two years nothing so she ask me about bow hunting. Got her a bow, she practice and she got herself a buck on the third night of sitting with me. It was great to be a part of that with her. Got a couple more coming that had ask the same question.

Now i relaize not all want to take up bow hunting and there is a lot more to it than rifle hunting and a lot more time and work in order to be sucessful.
It is not going to change unless a lot of people give it up or there are a lot more deer.

I do not have and answer for it and maybe one day i will not get a bow permit so others can get. So be it but i grew up on a farm, it was homestead by my grand parents, great grandparents, great uncles and aunts, kept back together by my farther in the thitries, my brothers farm and i will be damn if i give up hunting so a land owner can get one every year. and i do not need to hear how they are the ones that house and feed the deer as they tear every tree down so they do not have to put there arms on the steering wheel and override their auto steer.
So we all make bold statements but at least one knows where one sits with those statements.
So thanks for the comment and i do not have an answer other than we all may need to share our time with each other so all can hunt.
I will continue to plant food plots and trees for my part and some of those trees go on land that i do not own. db

 

[Duckslayer100]

I'll be Devils Advocate here: We all thought it was absolute insanity that anyone would put their faith in the government/G&F to run an accurate digital database of all posted and non-posted land in the state. How in the unholy hell would you expect them to successfully run and implement a digital process to register their deer harvest??

 

[Dirty]

I'll be Devils Advocate here: We all thought it was absolute insanity that anyone would put their faith in the government/G&F to run an accurate digital database of all posted and non-posted land in the state. How in the unholy hell would you expect them to successfully run and implement a digital process to register their deer harvest??

Many state agencies and Indian reservations do it successfully. Not sure why ours doesn’t or can’t, but the reason definitely isn’t because it just can’t be done, or that it is too complicated, or that it costs too much money. We already have to apply online so the system is set up.
I know you are just playing devils advocate, but it is a lot simpler than the posting database proposal, which has holes shot all the way through it. I don’t want to start listing the reasons because there are other threads for that. For game surveys, Our info is already in the game and fish system including our license numbers, SSN, names, email addresses, etc. if you have every purchased or applied for anything. The survey info being attached to the correct individual in the database is a cinch, and takes a lot less paper and manpower than surveys that get mailed out or emailed out randomly.

 

[db-2]

I would agree that having all us hunters use the computer to tell game and fish what our harvest was after the season was over. Really simple (I did finally quit sending a paper app in) but then game and fish. And as stated if one does not send it in maybe there is no license for next year. Even as an old stubborn man I feel that would not infringe on me in any way.

Yes some my lie but so be it. The information woulld be a lot better than what they work with now and maybe some direction on future hunting can come from it to make all our expereince better. I am not sure if anyone knows for sure just what the sucess ratio is for bow hunting. But it is up to us hunters to make it work not game and fish.

And Davey I thought on giving up bow hunting for a season if that would allow another youth to enjoy the hunt. I was wrong earlier as this year I never did take the bow with me to the stand and last year it was one time to harvest a certain deer. So I am really not much of a bow hunter. But hope to have 4-5 grandchildren joint me in the future with their bows. If it becomes difficult to get a bow permit maybe game and fish would have a program for me to give my chance up to one of my grandkids.
As they stated with the virus we are all in this together and we should be able to work things out for the better of hunting for all. db-2

 

[Davey Crockett]

youth [/B]to enjoy the hunt. I was wrong earlier as this year I never did take the bow with me to the stand and last year it was one time to harvest a certain deer. So I am really not much of a bow hunter. But hope to have 4-5 grandchildren joint me in the future with their bows. If it becomes difficult to get a bow permit maybe game and fish would have a program for me to give my chance up to one of my grandkids.
As they stated with the virus we are all in this together and we should be able to work things out for the better of hunting for all. db-2

db. Don't hang that bow up for a year. You deserve a deer license just as much as the next guy whether you hunt hard or carry that bow just to feel like are a hunter. It's those that get two or more license per year that I feel should give others a chance to enjoy a hunt too.

I'm happy that youth are taken care of with the youth license so our grandkids will eventually get an opportunity. So far none of my grandkids have been in on a hunt that they can remember, They were pretty small last time my boy got a license and the oldest grandson is still a few years off from a youth license but in the meantime, I gotta keep my boys interest up so he will take the time to get the grandkids into hunter safety and get them in on a harvest or two before they are old enough for a youth license.
I'm sort of like you in the way that I really don't care if I shoot a deer or not but we love venison so I get a gratis and usually pop a scrub buck and one deer is all we need.

You are right, We are all in this together and we should all be able to work things out for the better of the sport but it's a tough crowd when it comes to sharing. I found that out last time I engaged in this topic but I will stand my grounds on this topic for the betterment of the sport and my grandkids.

 

[Twitch]

This argument is a slippery slope and always ends the same in my mind. No offense meant to anyone in particular but the same guys that blame and namecall bowhunters who only “want their cake and eat it too” are acting the same way imo. It’s not that you just want a deer license and can’t get one, because you could have gotten a tag whether that be a bowtag or whether that be a rifle tag in any of the units that had licenses left after all the lotteries were over, you want a tag with your preferred weapon in your preferred unit. That’s not going to be possible for everyone no matter how you change the deer season or application process even with mandatory reporting or whatever else you work up in your mind. Therefore when I read these threads inevitably every year even though I can see some merit in some of the ideas I usually wind up feeling we have it pretty darn good in respect to deer season with things just the way they are. It’s just an opinion everyone has em and they all stink but there’s mine for whatever it’s worth.

 

[db-2]

Twitch:
Maybe we are all to set in having our ways that we will never work together to give some in order to get some for the good of all when it comes to hunting. db