Coal Creek

bobberdown

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someone will have to empty up garbage cans, maintain the pumps, and make sure that all sites are somewhat clean. That would entail a NoDak state employee. I would take that job in a Heartbeat. BURGUM HOVEAN, CRAMER, ARMSTRONG, YOU on IT? This would employ many hardworking good employees around every corner of the state
 


Migrator Man

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I swear some people on here act like they are in high school still. Do I care for MN? No not really but I can also admit that they are very good for somethings. For instance, Mayo clinic. I'm sorry but ND isn't better than MN in every single way like some of you seem to think.

Yeah you are right MN has was more Fleet Farms so therefore much better! But haven’t you heard of Trinity Hospital? It’s the Mayo of the Midwest.
 

Allen

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Anyone from MN that would care to discuss their state's antics towards ND, feel free to step up.

1. ND, after having seen too many rich Twin Cities hunters leasing sloughs in the flight path, implemented some NR waterfowl opportunities. I might add, the limits far exceeded the existing number of NR hunters, but it was politically well accepted even if it meant nothing in the real world. MN immediately sued ND over its NR hunting regulations saying they were too restrictive. All the while, MN had bear, moose, and sturgeon restrictions on ND outdoor enthusiasts. Those are different though...fugging hypocrites.

2. ND side of the Red River Valley (especially Farhole and GF) need a guaranteed water supply in the event of another dirty 30's style of drought. ND has for years been chasing the dream of plumbing ND with quality drinking and industrial water from the Missouri River, as promised by the feds for hosting Garrison Dam and upper Oahe from way back in the original Pick-Sloan project. MN knows full and well the ONLY advantage they have to siting a water intensive industrial plant (ethanol, sugar beets, etc) on their side of the RRV is water supply and has fought tooth and nail with extremely poor scientific integrity to prevent ND water supplies from reaching Valley City, Fargo, and Grand Forks. All because they fear the businesses will continue to be built on the ND side of the Red River. They even went so far as to make the Bureau of Reclamation study drought water supplies from MN (groundwater and Lake of the Woods) knowing they would never politically sign off on supplying the industries that ND's population worked at in any "future drought". Note, industries who are going to spend millions of dollars on a water intensive activity cannot receive investor support without some kind of guarantee that water will be available during the dry times. This is why ND has some of the finest hydrologists in the country on staff within the ND State Water Commission. They need to very accurately assess and permit water supplies.

3. Look up and down the ND/MN border at the paired cities. GF/EGF, Fargo/Moorhead, Wahpeton/Breckinridge. What do they all have in common? The people have spoken, they prefer to live in and under ND rules, regulations, and tax structure. MN knows the one ace-in-the-hole they have is water supply because it can always be plumbed in from the lakes region. So MN uses this as an economic weapon against ND each and every single fugging time they can. So they have again sued ND under environmental laws to prevent ND citizens from receiving drinking water.


Yeah, whoever neg rep'd me for not liking MN, fuck you and the piece of shit state you call home. You want me to like MN? Put up a little resistance to their un-neighborly policies. We don't have these issues with SD and MT.
 
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Reprobait

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Nobody is asking the state to prop up the plants. We just want an even playing field. Stop propping up the wind farms.


you banged the head of the nail on that post guy #55. Chicken Little said the sky was falling, so lets believe that. How about some forward thinking on the :closure: No. Dak. owns a state bank, a state mill, and both of these operations seem to be run well, and profitable. How about buying Coal Creek, and supplying north dakotans with cheap electricity, maintaining good jobs and look to the future? Im pretty sure the oil RAINY DAY FUND is loaded with enough money to buy the plant and run it at a profit, or at least provide NoDaks with a reliable source of power. Cut the grid at the Minnesota border?? When the lights go out at US Bank Stadium ,or Target Field, then the GRE honchos will pucker their bungholes

There is no guarantee of a profit or a demand for the power. If I remember right from an article a few months ago the Coal Creek plant is losing money. If the state forced utilities to buy this power, would other plants be forced to close? The state could get the plant for nothing, but if it loses money when do you stop? We would be on the hook for decommissioning costs.

The DGC plant at Beulah is hemorrhaging money. Should the state prop that up in some way? I don't know what the answers are. This stuff does need to be thought out with an eye to the future and not just clinging to the past.

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https://bismarcktribune.com/news/st...cle_0f73ff07-9b00-5c97-9f84-3e16227c3c9f.html
 


Davey Crockett

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Is it because of the design that there is no talk of retrofitting it to fire on NG ? I read where they are going to convert the Spiritwood plant over to gas. I'm guessing it must not be feasible or it would be a no brainer.
 

Kurtr

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There is no guarantee of a profit or a demand for the power. If I remember right from an article a few months ago the Coal Creek plant is losing money. If the state forced utilities to buy this power, would other plants be forced to close? The state could get the plant for nothing, but if it loses money when do you stop? We would be on the hook for decommissioning costs.

The DGC plant at Beulah is hemorrhaging money. Should the state prop that up in some way? I don't know what the answers are. This stuff does need to be thought out with an eye to the future and not just clinging to the past.

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https://bismarcktribune.com/news/st...cle_0f73ff07-9b00-5c97-9f84-3e16227c3c9f.html


tax the wind farms to make up any shortfalls.

Allen wins
 

JMF

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There is no guarantee of a profit or a demand for the power. If I remember right from an article a few months ago the Coal Creek plant is losing money. If the state forced utilities to buy this power, would other plants be forced to close? The state could get the plant for nothing, but if it loses money when do you stop? We would be on the hook for decommissioning costs.

The DGC plant at Beulah is hemorrhaging money. Should the state prop that up in some way? I don't know what the answers are. This stuff does need to be thought out with an eye to the future and not just clinging to the past.

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https://bismarcktribune.com/news/st...cle_0f73ff07-9b00-5c97-9f84-3e16227c3c9f.html

If coal creek received the same $23 per megawatt subsidy (tax dollars) that the wind farms get, they probably wouldn't be losing money.
 
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Migrator Man

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There is no guarantee of a profit or a demand for the power. If I remember right from an article a few months ago the Coal Creek plant is losing money. If the state forced utilities to buy this power, would other plants be forced to close? The state could get the plant for nothing, but if it loses money when do you stop? We would be on the hook for decommissioning costs.

The DGC plant at Beulah is hemorrhaging money. Should the state prop that up in some way? I don't know what the answers are. This stuff does need to be thought out with an eye to the future and not just clinging to the past.

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https://bismarcktribune.com/news/st...cle_0f73ff07-9b00-5c97-9f84-3e16227c3c9f.html

Wind power gets on the grid first because it is the cheapest. Coal plants cont compete on price so they have to take whatever is less. What doesn’t get talked about with renewables is all the other costs that are incurred from renewables like big increases to the cost of transmission. Our electric bills are not going up because wind rates are cheaper than coal rates, it is because they are charging us more for transmission. This is only going to get worse as more renewables are added with phasing our baseload power.

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Yes and yes.

https://www.legis.nd.gov/files/committees/65-2017/19_5116_03000appendixb.pdf

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamese...more-on-fossil-fuel-subsidies-than-education/

https://www.foxbusiness.com/energy/trump-energy-bailout-is-coal-in-taxpayers-stockings

Before I get accused again of being anti oil/coal/nat gas for the 4th or 5th time on this site, just know that my job is and has been directly tied to the fossil fuel industry.

Why would you post this with no context?

https://talkbusiness.net/2019/01/renewable-energy-collects-93-of-federal-subsidies/

93% of federal subsidies go to renewables
 

sweeney

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Is it because of the design that there is no talk of retrofitting it to fire on NG ? I read where they are going to convert the Spiritwood plant over to gas. I'm guessing it must not be feasible or it would be a no brainer.
Natural gas retrofits costs more per mwh on average than existing coal
 
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Migrator Man

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Is it because of the design that there is no talk of retrofitting it to fire on NG ? I read where they are going to convert the Spiritwood plant over to gas. I'm guessing it must not be feasible or it would be a no brainer.
It doesn’t sound very efficient to me. The new efficient natural gas peaking plants do not use steam to generate electricity. That’s why heskett will not be the same fishing spot when there is no warm water discharge.

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If coal creek received the same $23 per megawatt subsidy (tax dollars) that the wind farms get, they probably wouldn't be losing money.

It’s actually 2.3 cents per megawatt hour that wind gets. The spread is unfortunately more than 2.3 cents
 

JMF

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Wind power gets on the grid first because it is the cheapest.

Thats not completely true, renewables go on the market first because they are mandated to. Wind can afford to go on the market cheaper and still make money because of the subsidies.

If we want to stop sending our tax dollars to subsidize wind we have to get on Cramer and Hoven to help end the production tax credits (PTC).
 

guywhofishes

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the inability for some to differentiate greater MN from micro MN is stunning

you think the majority of people in the low population counties in MN approve of MSP policies and actions?

I can get on board with criticism of the Twin Cities and the powers that be in MN, I just don’t get the “anything MN sucks” idea. Seems tribal/barbaric.
 


Marbleyes

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Why would you post this with no context?

https://talkbusiness.net/2019/01/renewable-energy-collects-93-of-federal-subsidies/

93% of federal subsidies go to renewables

Because AR-15’s question was “do coal plants get subsidies or have they gotten subsidies in the past”. The answer is yes and yes. He didn’t ask what percentage of subsidies coal gets compared to renewables. I answered the literal question he asked.

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Migrator Man or anyone else, does AR-15’s question come up as a quote within my response in post #27? I noticed when v193, Obi and Migrator Man responded to my post #27, none of your guys’ “quotes” of post #27 shows AR-15’s question, they just start with my response of yes and yes, which seems odd.
 

Colt45

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To try and be positive, Minnesota seems to be shifting right or conservative, will be interesting if the state falls in line and supports sleepy creepy joe .....................

Minn.jpg

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This should cheer everyone up, here is a photo of a reliable fossil fueled helicopter deicing the blades of an unreliable wind turbine, they had to deice the entire wind farm (100+ towers) with the reliable fossil fueled helicopter. Also remember, no wind farm has reduced a gram of CO2 due to construction and disposal techniques and also because of the required reliable fossil fueled spinning reserve needed in the event the wind doesn't blow. Again, this is all insanity, and I cant say it enough, THANKS OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRAT PARTY!!!
heli.jpg
 

Finaddict

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Thank You Guy. Just because I live in Minnesota doesn't mean I like or support the DFL morons like Ellifson or the bony piece of crap OMAR. Can't believe to this day that she was elected. MSP is certainly a bed of Libtards, but much of the rest of the state is almost normal. Unfortunately we are much like most states, the power and voting strength is located in the metropolitan areas. Trashing an entire state because of the politics of some isn't fair or realistic. The haters need to spend some time in the western part of the state before passing judgment on the whole.

Finnadict


the inability for some to differentiate greater MN from micro MN is stunning

you think the majority of people in the low population counties in MN approve of MSP policies and actions?

I can get on board with criticism of the Twin Cities and the powers that be in MN, I just don’t get the “anything MN sucks” idea. Seems tribal/barbaric.
 

Allen

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the inability for some to differentiate greater MN from micro MN is stunning

you think the majority of people in the low population counties in MN approve of MSP policies and actions?

I can get on board with criticism of the Twin Cities and the powers that be in MN, I just don’t get the “anything MN sucks” idea. Seems tribal/barbaric.

When it came to suing ND over hunting, some of the biggest proponents of it were the small towns and residents within close driving distance of ND. I remember it quite well as it was while I lived in GF.

I get what you're saying in that there's a big difference between rural MN and the Twin Cities, but your average resident of the Twin Cities doesn't give a hoot where in the RRV the industries are located, or if the backassed country bumpkins can come to ND to shoot ducks every weekend in the fall. Those were rural driven initiatives in MN that the rural legislators brought up and talked their urbanites into supporting and funding.
 

Migrator Man

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No, it's 2.3 cents per kilowatt hour, thats $23 per megawatt hour.
Yeah your right on that one, got my units messed up. At $23 per megawatt hour that would be enough for coal to compete. Man they are getting screwed. These low cost coal plants should not be retired. We better hope the dems don’t win in Nov otherwise it will just get worse. WY and ND coal industries will be decimated.
 


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