Coal Creek

JMF

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the inability for some to differentiate greater MN from micro MN is stunning

you think the majority of people in the low population counties in MN approve of MSP policies and actions?

I can get on board with criticism of the Twin Cities and the powers that be in MN, I just don’t get the “anything MN sucks” idea. Seems tribal/barbaric.

I get what you are saying. However when it comes to energy all I hear and see is the member owned co-ops in MN that run GRE are the ones against coal fired electricity. A lot of these co-ops provide electricity to rural communities. Where is the pushback from these communities to stop the spread of wind? Maybe when GRE starts putting the turbines in their backyard they will stand up too it.
 
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shorthairsrus

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all i know is we finally got away from the corona MN walz thinkers on this site that think everything should be closed and that somehow they are going to get rid of corona by staying home and watching net flix.
 

7mmMag

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Obviously GRE shutting down is huge blow to ND but this is happening all over and I don't think we can do anything about it. I used to work for a renewable energy company and they actually bought coal fired plants just to shut them down. It might be hard to believe but its absolutely true. They would have "townhall" meetings basically bragging about it.
 

shorthairsrus

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As we slowly slip in the cold - -- solar min -- the coal burning will come back.

We will get three months of open water and thats it.

Burn a piece of coal help america be warm again.
 

Coalburner

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7 counties in the United States have a triple A clean air rating - one of them are in the middle of coal country North Dakota - fly ash is not even considered a hazardous waste - I am sure the blades they have to replace on the wind turbines every 10 years are recycled though right? - where did you get your environmental science degree you dope.
 


Migrator Man

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7 counties in the United States have a triple A clean air rating - one of them are in the middle of coal country North Dakota - fly ash is not even considered a hazardous waste - I am sure the blades they have to replace on the wind turbines every 10 years are recycled though right? - where did you get your environmental science degree you dope.
I’m pretty sure Fritz is being sarcastic, there is no way he would ever agree with the NWF!
 

tikkalover

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So what is in the big pile SE of the power plant? I thought that was a pile of fly ash.
 

Davey Crockett

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This is a question. Back in the early 80s when my bride and I were making babies there were all sorts of public awareness announcements and bulletins about high mercury content in Devils lake fish and breast feeding moms and children should limit devils lake fish intake. I believe the theory was that it was fallout from the coal fired plants and the the prevailing winds were pushing mercury to Devils Lake. That's what ( I think) I remember, It's been a few days. Was that the case and did improvements in the facility fix that problem or did the lake flush itself clean ? or both ?
 

JMF

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This is a question. Back in the early 80s when my bride and I were making babies there were all sorts of public awareness announcements and bulletins about high mercury content in Devils lake fish and breast feeding moms and children should limit devils lake fish intake. I believe the theory was that it was fallout from the coal fired plants and the the prevailing winds were pushing mercury to Devils Lake. That's what ( I think) I remember, It's been a few days. Was that the case and did improvements in the facility fix that problem or did the lake flush itself clean ? or both ?

Complete BS. Same unfounded scare tactics used today.
 

Allen

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This is a question. Back in the early 80s when my bride and I were making babies there were all sorts of public awareness announcements and bulletins about high mercury content in Devils lake fish and breast feeding moms and children should limit devils lake fish intake. I believe the theory was that it was fallout from the coal fired plants and the the prevailing winds were pushing mercury to Devils Lake. That's what ( I think) I remember, It's been a few days. Was that the case and did improvements in the facility fix that problem or did the lake flush itself clean ? or both ?

Most of central ND small lakes have a mercury problem. I'd suggest that most of that mercury is naturally occurring in the local sediments that has been freed via oxidation of the organic carbons in the local shale rock. Up around DL that would be either the Pierre or Niobrara shale (I forget offhand which daylights in that area). In the many other small lakes, they are surrounded by soils and sands ground out of the sedimentary deposits of ND. Again, much of the mercury is native to the local rocks and sands. Same goes for arsenic and selenium, both of which are known issues in some parts of the state. At one point there was a push to declare a part of SE North Dakota as a Superfund site because of the known arsenic levels in the local groundwater. They initially believed it was due to grasshopper baits/poisons used back in the dirty 30s. However, a simple mass balance ruled out the poisons. What does happen though is nitrate from farm fertilizers that escape the root zone and enter the groundwater react with the organic carbon and iron sulfides in the shale sediments. Both are sources of arsenic, mercury, and selenium. As the OC and sulfides (mostly pyrite) are consumed in the chemical reaction, the trace metals trapped within them are released.

Yeah, I spent a little time on this topic at one point in life.


Back in the 90s the state used to do lake by lake testing of fish for mercury. Then they spent a few years trying to make more generalized assessments of the lakes in a given area. At this point I am not exactly sure of the state of science for fish testing. In general though, unless you are talking Lake Sakakawea and Missouri River fish, the predators (walleye and pike in particular) get pretty heavily contaminated by mercury as they grow. Hence the eating advisories are often listed via fish length where smaller fish, generally being younger, have less in the way of mercury per meal. Some of the bigger fish could probably double as thermometers with the amount of mercury they have in them.
 


Skeeter

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This is a question. Back in the early 80s when my bride and I were making babies there were all sorts of public awareness announcements and bulletins about high mercury content in Devils lake fish and breast feeding moms and children should limit devils lake fish intake. I believe the theory was that it was fallout from the coal fired plants and the the prevailing winds were pushing mercury to Devils Lake. That's what ( I think) I remember, It's been a few days. Was that the case and did improvements in the facility fix that problem or did the lake flush itself clean ? or both ?

early libtard scare tactics. You would have to eat larger fish 3 times a day everyday to have any affect on the human body.
 

Fritz the Cat

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7 counties in the United States have a triple A clean air rating - one of them are in the middle of coal country North Dakota - fly ash is not even considered a hazardous waste - I am sure the blades they have to replace on the wind turbines every 10 years are recycled though right? - where did you get your environmental science degree you dope.

Coalburner, I was spoofing. Everyone simply waves it off as the damn enviro's did it. What enviro's, who are they? Ten years ago NDWF had a website complete with pictures of Coal Creek Generating Station and how coal fired plants are bad for the environment. Of course the website is gone now.

Too bad fishingbuddy is gone and with it a wealth of old material. I said it on there many times that sportsmen who work in coal should not support the ND wildlife federation.

Dewayne Schafer with the Sierra Club used to write letters to the editor about how the smog is rolling down the Missouri River and causing asthma and what not in Bismarck. These orgs have been embedding a message for years.

Enviro Orgs get funding from.....first have to ask yourself....who benefits?

The building of Coal Creek Station was probably on paper for 20 years before it was built. It took investors, it took working within the laws. It took stakeholders helping write those laws. Had they exposed "the Plan" before it was built how many coal leases do you think landowners would have sold so cheaply?

Today the investors are again 20 years into the future. For them, they are done with Coal Creek. If you could be a fly on the wall inside the Board meetings privy to the "the new future energy Plan," we all would know how to invest in our livelihoods more wisely.

Migrator Man said,
I’m pretty sure Fritz is being sarcastic, there is no way he would ever agree with the NWF!

A couple decades ago the ND wildlife federation had probably 10,000 members. Today the leadership is little more than a controlled opposition org. I got that link from the National Wildlife website against coal. They get their ideals from those who fund them.
 

Coalburner

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Coalburner, I was spoofing. Everyone simply waves it off as the damn enviro's did it. What enviro's, who are they? Ten years ago NDWF had a website complete with pictures of Coal Creek Generating Station and how coal fired plants are bad for the environment. Of course the website is gone now.

Too bad fishingbuddy is gone and with it a wealth of old material. I said it on there many times that sportsmen who work in coal should not support the ND wildlife federation.

Dewayne Schafer with the Sierra Club used to write letters to the editor about how the smog is rolling down the Missouri River and causing asthma and what not in Bismarck. These orgs have been embedding a message for years.

Enviro Orgs get funding from.....first have to ask yourself....who benefits?

The building of Coal Creek Station was probably on paper for 20 years before it was built. It took investors, it took working within the laws. It took stakeholders helping write those laws. Had they exposed "the Plan" before it was built how many coal leases do you think landowners would have sold so cheaply?

Today the investors are again 20 years into the future. For them, they are done with Coal Creek. If you could be a fly on the wall inside the Board meetings privy to the "the new future energy Plan," we all would know how to invest in our livelihoods more wisely.



A couple decades ago the ND wildlife federation had probably 10,000 members. Today the leadership is little more than a controlled opposition org. I got that link from the National Wildlife website against coal. They get their ideals from those who fund them.
My bad - Sorry for blowing up there ��- that is some good information.
 

Fritz the Cat

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Thank you,

I used to work at a coal mine for 28 years. In 1984 Bob Murry the head of NACCO came from Ohio and gave us a little update on how things were built. Or "the plan". The Dakota Gasification Plan was in the works in the 1950's. In the early 60's they went out and purchased the coal leases. The landowners had no idea how big the plan was. He said President Jimmy Carter was told what to say and when to say it how America needs to support the synfuels plant north of Beulah.

Looking back at my Grandfathers land abstracts, there it is. The coal leases were registered with the Deeds Office in the 60's. They have since expired and no one has approached my father or myself to extend them. It's over.

I have been getting questionnaires or feelers from solar and wind companies. Lately companies have had helicopters out here flying very close to the ground counting wildlife and especially raptors. Have a pair of redtailed hawks nesting that got buzzed a few times.

Coalburner, wouldn't it be nice to have inside information on which way these companies are going to make their move? A person could invest or position ourselves to make wise investments.

I know this much, don't buy the theater or laundromat in Coalstrip Montana. Puget Sound Energy and Portland Lighting built the four units in Coalstrip and they are about done with them.

I did a search on Bob Murry. He is still alive and still a loud advocate for coal. Lots of stories and short video clips on the legend. He also has a lot of haters.
 

ejolliffe

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Anyone from MN that would care to discuss their state's antics towards ND, feel free to step up.

1. ND, after having seen too many rich Twin Cities hunters leasing sloughs in the flight path, implemented some NR waterfowl opportunities. I might add, the limits far exceeded the existing number of NR hunters, but it was politically well accepted even if it meant nothing in the real world. MN immediately sued ND over its NR hunting regulations saying they were too restrictive. All the while, MN had bear, moose, and sturgeon restrictions on ND outdoor enthusiasts. Those are different though...fugging hypocrites.

2. ND side of the Red River Valley (especially Farhole and GF) need a guaranteed water supply in the event of another dirty 30's style of drought. ND has for years been chasing the dream of plumbing ND with quality drinking and industrial water from the Missouri River, as promised by the feds for hosting Garrison Dam and upper Oahe from way back in the original Pick-Sloan project. MN knows full and well the ONLY advantage they have to siting a water intensive industrial plant (ethanol, sugar beets, etc) on their side of the RRV is water supply and has fought tooth and nail with extremely poor scientific integrity to prevent ND water supplies from reaching Valley City, Fargo, and Grand Forks. All because they fear the businesses will continue to be built on the ND side of the Red River. They even went so far as to make the Bureau of Reclamation study drought water supplies from MN (groundwater and Lake of the Woods) knowing they would never politically sign off on supplying the industries that ND's population worked at in any "future drought". Note, industries who are going to spend millions of dollars on a water intensive activity cannot receive investor support without some kind of guarantee that water will be available during the dry times. This is why ND has some of the finest hydrologists in the country on staff within the ND State Water Commission. They need to very accurately assess and permit water supplies.

3. Look up and down the ND/MN border at the paired cities. GF/EGF, Fargo/Moorhead, Wahpeton/Breckinridge. What do they all have in common? The people have spoken, they prefer to live in and under ND rules, regulations, and tax structure. MN knows the one ace-in-the-hole they have is water supply because it can always be plumbed in from the lakes region. So MN uses this as an economic weapon against ND each and every single fugging time they can. So they have again sued ND under environmental laws to prevent ND citizens from receiving drinking water.


Yeah, whoever neg rep'd me for not liking MN, fuck you and the piece of shit state you call home. You want me to like MN? Put up a little resistance to their un-neighborly policies. We don't have these issues with SD and MT.

Best post to date...
 


SDMF

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How can the 'Range miners in NE MN Arrowhead see so many of their mining brothers and sisters put out of work all over the country, and yet continue to vote for the block of politicians leading the charge against so many kinds of mining?
 

Fly Carpin

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Working class Rangers have been voting blue since the ‘20s. About as pro-Union of a region as you’re going to find. But they’ve been getting redder as the DFL starts to care more about the typical lefty nonsense and less about the ideals they were founded upon (protecting the working class)
 

SDMF

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Working class Rangers have been voting blue since the ‘20s. About as pro-Union of a region as you’re going to find. But they’ve been getting redder as the DFL starts to care more about the typical lefty nonsense and less about the ideals they were founded upon (protecting the working class)

I know WHY they vote the way they do, I just find it hard to believe that they continue to allow themselves to essentially be "the frog in the pot of warming water".

How long can a person look at the opposition to so many forms of mining all over North America and think, "That'll never happen here" or "That doesn't apply to us".

I realize that 80yrs of precedent is difficult to overcome but doggone-it folks, the left isn't even doing the wink-wink nod-nod anymore, they're on Nat'l television telling folks they're going to outlaw mines and mining practices all over the country.

I don't know anyone who mines up in that country, nor do I know diddly about the mines up there short of driving by a few of them every-other month or so. Maybe they're not the frog in the heating pot of water. Am I off base somehow? Am I missing something?
 
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Migrator Man

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I know WHY they vote the way they do, I just find it hard to believe that they continue to allow themselves to essentially be "the frog in the pot of warming water".

How long can a person look at the opposition to so many forms of mining all over North America and think, "That'll never happen here" or "That doesn't apply to us".

I realize that 80yrs of precedent is difficult to overcome but doggone-it folks, the left isn't even doing the wink-wink nod-nod anymore, they're on Nat'l television telling folks they're going to outlaw mines and mining practices all over the country.

I don't know anyone who mines up in that country, nor do I know diddly about the mines up there short of driving by a few of them every-other month or so. Maybe they're not the frog in the heating pot of water. Am I off base somehow? Am I missing something?
The liberal know we can just buy these materials from other countries and Mainly CHINA! Where do most of the solar panels come from??? China! Liberal are anti American. They want to replace domestic energy production with Chinese production. It will only get worse with Biden....

- - - Updated - - -

How can the 'Range miners in NE MN Arrowhead see so many of their mining brothers and sisters put out of work all over the country, and yet continue to vote for the block of politicians leading the charge against so many kinds of mining?

What about the propose mining projects in MN? The only party fighting them is the democrats. Brainwashed union sheep! I think the pipeline unions have caught on though as I don’t know many that still support the Dems.
 

Up Y'oars

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Coal Movie

- - - Updated - - -

Also, contact the PSC with a quick message that those transmission lines MUST be removed if the plant is dismantled. We, here in ND, don't need those structures sitting there being an eyesore of a bad memory.

ndpsc@nd.gov
 


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