New deer rifle?

[Kentucky Windage]

When/if availability of reloading components settles down I sort of have an idea for a "hunting weight" 6PRC. 6.5PRC brass seems to be in mighty short supply and I'm not building something if I can't source several hundred pieces of brass to form with up front.

I guess I'll just have to plod along with the boring old 270Win for a while longer......

I’m sorry, I fell asleep as soon as I read “with the boring old 270Win”. I’m getting tired again while I type thissssssss.........snoring

- - - Updated - - -

The Creedmoor family of cartridges has been and will continue to be the most effective launch of a new chambering to date. First and foremost, they started with a cartridge that doesn't rattle your fillings on every shot. Then they got the magazine OAL capacity and chamber dimensions in harmony while also looking @ where projectile R&D was going in order to get the twist correct not only for current offerings, but, also projectiles they assumed would come in the future. Now, the popularity has soared because it's easy to shoot well. As such, the price to shoot it will continue to fall as the volume of ammo loaded for it rises. The relatively low cost to shoot the rifle means more shooting, more practice, which makes people better shooters, some of which they'll attribute to the chambering.

That was a damn fine post SD. Do you agree Rem also was tone deaf about their .17 when the HMR craze began?

you’re comparing the 17 Remington center fire vs the 17 hmr????

 

[Petras]

I'll never get rid of my .308. It shoots everything from 110gr to 200gr bullets, and once I find the magic recipe, it shoot so well it's almost boring. I bought daughter #1 a Fencepost 6.5 manbun, and have been amazed at how well it has shot everything, out of the box. Haven't started re-loading for it yet, but I have shot Hornady branded ammo, and Federal using 130gr Barnes & Berger....and everything has been way sub-moa....she loves it.

I have also been intrigued by the 6mm manbun, and probably a candidate for daughter #2.

My 6.5 Grendel for my AR has been a different story....by far the most frustrating thing to shoot, ever, for me. With the exception of some Berger (hybrid target), I'm looking at 4-5" groups at 100 yards....i've seen better groups out of a Mosin shooting steel case at a 100 yards than this Grendel.

What bullets have you tried reloading? What kind of upper do you have and how many shots through it? I bought a BCA 6.5 grendel upper and put it on an anderson lower. It took about 100 rounds or so, but it eventually started shooting pretty well. I tried out some 95 grain vmax handloads and also some 107TMK handloads. The 107TMK handloads I made up shoot about 3/4" which for me and a coyote gun is perfectly fine. Never could get the 95vmax to shoot any better than about 1.5" @100 yards.

 

[SDMF]

Do you agree Rem also was tone deaf about their .17 when the HMR craze began?

Remington has been tone deaf regarding rimfires in general since they discontinued the 541 IMO. Remington also routinely made exceptionally poor commercial launches of new cartridges/chamberings. They've also been painfully slow to acknowledge when others have been successful.

The 1:12 twist 244/6MM. They used a case that didn't fit well into their short action and then twisted it such that most folks would only use it for a varmint rifle. There weren't really any "stout" projectiles under 85gn for the 6mm in the 1950's.

The 7MM Rem Express. Americans traditionally don't adopt the cartridges named in "mm's", the 7MM Rem mag being the one glaring example to the contrary. They should've called it the .280Rem from the get-go and they should've forgone any semiautomatic version in order to load it to the same 63-64K PSI that Winchester was loading the .270 to.

The 8MM Rem Mag should've been "The" elk cartridge every elk hunter aspired to obtain. However, Rem loaded the factory ammo with dogshit projectiles that were far too fragile for the velocity they obtained. A 200-225gn Partition in factory ammo would've cemented the 8MM as "Elk King". As offered, even Boddington couldn't get that job done despite nearly 2 decades of trying.

Remington had Carbon-fiber wrapped bbls on factory rifles in the late-90's. They didn't know where to niche them or how to explain whey they believed the benefits were, so they threw a few options out on the market and it flopped.

Etronx, everybody and their brother just knew that those electronic primers would someday be impossible to find.

I like the M 700 rifle. The marketing and post-launch support from Big Green however has been very poor at best.

 

[LBrandt]

I guess I will stick with my "boring" Rem's in 22-250, 270, 308 and 300 mag. All the stocks have been replaced with ugly black cause I "use" my guns. Who ever gets them when I am gone can do what ever they want wood or poly. For my 2 cents its 90% shooter and 10% gun. I got my 270 in a bar one night in 1974 for 150.00 cause the guy said it was shit. Found out he was the shit part not the gun. Still use it today as my favorite deer gun, 46 years later. And to rub salt in my wounds 2 22-250 and the 308 are 788 war clubs all bought for less than 180 dollars. They all put meat on the table. LB

 

[SDMF]

The LRF becoming affordable and ubiquitous has effected as much change/advancement upon the shooting sports as did the brass case cartridge or the telescopic sight.

The LRF negates the need to shoot a rifle with an uncomfortable amount of recoil. Assuming one can use the LRF, a ballistics program, and make range corrections with their sighting device, one no longer needs to field a chambering that burns 100+gn of powder to eek an extra 50yds worth of MPBR. "Drop" has become "just a number". As long as you know the distance and how to account for it, drop becomes an insignificant part of the equation. Backing off to chamberings that are burning 35-50gn of powder and more efficient projectiles sure does encourage one to practice a lot more. Those lower recoiling rifles promote much better shooting habits as well, #1 being, MORE SHOOTING!

 

[Kurtr]

The LRF becoming affordable and ubiquitous has effected as much change/advancement upon the shooting sports as did the brass case cartridge or the telescopic sight.

The LRF negates the need to shoot a rifle with an uncomfortable amount of recoil. Assuming one can use the LRF, a ballistics program, and make range corrections with their sighting device, one no longer needs to field a chambering that burns 100+gn of powder to eek an extra 50yds worth of MPBR. "Drop" has become "just a number". As long as you know the distance and how to account for it, drop becomes an insignificant part of the equation. Backing off to chamberings that are burning 35-50gn of powder and more efficient projectiles sure does encourage one to practice a lot more. Those lower recoiling rifles promote much better shooting habits as well, #1 being, MORE SHOOTING!

This pretty much ends it all.

 

[lunkerslayer]

Remington has been tone deaf regarding rimfires in general since they discontinued the 541 IMO. Remington also routinely made exceptionally poor commercial launches of new cartridges/chamberings. They've also been painfully slow to acknowledge when others have been successful.

The 1:12 twist 244/6MM. They used a case that didn't fit well into their short action and then twisted it such that most folks would only use it for a varmint rifle. There weren't really any "stout" projectiles under 85gn for the 6mm in the 1950's.

The 7MM Rem Express. Americans traditionally don't adopt the cartridges named in "mm's", the 7MM Rem mag being the one glaring example to the contrary. They should've called it the .280Rem from the get-go and they should've forgone any semiautomatic version in order to load it to the same 63-64K PSI that Winchester was loading the .270 to.

The 8MM Rem Mag should've been "The" elk cartridge every elk hunter aspired to obtain. However, Rem loaded the factory ammo with dogshit projectiles that were far too fragile for the velocity they obtained. A 200-225gn Partition in factory ammo would've cemented the 8MM as "Elk King". As offered, even Boddington couldn't get that job done despite nearly 2 decades of trying.

Remington had Carbon-fiber wrapped bbls on factory rifles in the late-90's. They didn't know where to niche them or how to explain whey they believed the benefits were, so they threw a few options out on the market and it flopped.

Etronx, everybody and their brother just knew that those electronic primers would someday be impossible to find.

I like the M 700 rifle. The marketing and post-launch support from Big Green however has been very poor at best.

Oh so that is why the 280 is loaded lighter because of the semi automatic, i have read that even sammi doesn't give any information on load above 60Kpsi for the 280 rem
I have read that the 6mm and the 244 are actually two different gun because the shell are not interchangeable is this correct?
thanks sdmf for the clarification I am really leaning towards the 280 Ai just because its an odd duck but can shoot mid grain cartridges the same has the 7mm mag is one of those guns that seem to be notorious for burning out barrels pre-maturely
Of course I have no clue my self for this is just information that I have read on other forums

 

[SLE]

After being a 30 caliber snob for pretty much my whole life and getting the shit kicked outa me for more than 2 decades by my 30-06 I found myself looking for a cheap smaller caliber rifle to start my kids on. Thought about a 243 but wanted a little more ass to it and something a little more versatile. Ended up with a Ruger American 6.5 CM topped with a cheap Vortex Diamondback 4-16x44 Tactical scope. Of course "Dad" had to set it up, and dial it in...................and then take it on a couple Deer hunting outings to make sure it was an effective round. Low and behold I found it to be a dream to shoot and an absolute tack driver out to 500-700 yds at which point I start running out of scope for my eyes. I was astounded how well that gun, as a very cheap setup, shoots. Spending time behind that gun proved to me you don't have to get the snot kicked out of you to have an effective rifle cartridge.

With a 308 also in the armory amongst several other calibers, I had been contemplating a new high end light weight long range setup. Something fun to ping steel out past a 1k yds, an effective hunting round, and yet something I can backpack into the back country. I also wanted something with lower recoil and a cartridge that had very good factory ammo. The 6.5 CM left me really liking the cartridge for its great accuracy with factory rounds and low recoil but wanting a little more speed to add some energy at longer distance. I made a leap of faith and purchased a round and a gun that I had no first hand experience with and didn't know anyone that owned either. After some extensive research I picked up a Fierce Firearms Carbon Edge chambered in 6.5 PRC and topped with the new Nightforce NX8 4-32x50. I'm only on about month 6 of ownership but so far I'm very happy with my purchase. Very Low recoil (it does have a radial brake), excellent accuracy with factory Hornady 147 ELDM pills, and far an away the funest gun I have in the safe. Dialing in for antelope season I laid a 2" 3 shot 700 yd group together on factory ammo, something I've never done before! And of course it put down 2 speed goats last weekend for both myself, and my hunting partner that used it to dispatch his wounded goat that bedded down at a touch over 400 yds.

I know lots of people cringe when you say 6.5 but damnit, they shoot so well. Hornaday put the time, effort, and technology into developing these cartridges with the correct barrel twist and is providing excellent factory ammo which has made the 6.5CM and the PRC really desirable rounds. I will say, the 6.5-284 was on my short list but got axed due to the lack of factory ammo support. My eye also twitched a little when I looked up the ballistics of the 6.5-300 Wb however the 34+lbs of felt recoil (more than 10lbs more than the ot-six!) was enough to make my eye's water.

My only note of disregard for the 6.5 PRC has been finding ammo as of late. I have 7-8 boxes so I'm not in any shortage but like several calibers that are maybe not quite as mainstream as say a .270, 308, 30-06, 243 or even the 6.5CM, 6.5 PRC ammo is about non existent at the moment.

 

[Enslow]

A .270 win is a barn burning wild cat compared up to a 6.5 creedmoor.

- - - Updated - - -

Stick a .264 bullet into a .22-250 case does that sound not gay?

 

[1lessdog]

I have read that the 6mm and the 244 are actually two different gun because the shell are not interchangeable is this correct?


By the early 1950s, there had been a significant amount of experimentation and 'wildcatting' in developing the .24 caliber bullet as a dual purpose hunting round. Popular cartridges necked down for this purpose included the .257 Roberts (based on the 7x57mm Mauser) and .308 Winchester.[2] Fred Huntington of RCBS had developed what was known as the .243 Rock Chucker wildcat cartridge. This was a necked down .257 Roberts casing shooting a .24/6mm bullet. This ultimately became the .244 Remington. Mike Walker, who had previously designed the Remington Model 722, 'productized' Huntington’s wildcat cartridge and adapted the Model 722 chambering for it in 1955.
The existing Remington Model 722 was chambered for the new .244 Remington cartridge with a 1 in 12-inch twist. Remington originally offered this cartridge with 75 grain bullets for varmints and 90 grain bullets for medium-sized big game such as deer and antelope.[3][4][5]
Remington determined that a 90 grain soft point .244 hunting bullet was well suited for medium-sized big game hunting purposes. For the length and weight of its 90 grain soft point hunting bullet, Remington selected a 1 in 12-inch twist. By selecting the slowest twist possible, Remington was seeking to avoid excessive spin. By avoiding excessive spin they were able to maximize velocity, range and accuracy of their 90 grain big game hunting bullet as well as lighter varmint loads.[SUP][2][/SUP]
Public perception and understanding of ballistics in the 1950s did not agree with this approach. By 1958, Remington was obliged to increase the 722s twist to 1 in 9 inches, well in excess of what is needed to stabilize a 90 grain bullet. Remington continued to offer factory ammo in 75 and 90 grain bullets.
Remington also added several other rifles chambered for the .244 cartridge including the Model 740, Model 742, Model 760 and finally the Model 725. However, by 1962, presumably due to lack of sales, Remington no longer chambered rifles for .244 cartridge.
In 1963, on the heels of its successful first year launch of the new Remington Model 700 bolt action hunting rifle, the .244 was re-introduced but renamed 6mm Remington. The 700 continued with the 1 in 9-inch twist and Remington also introduced new 6mm ammunition loaded with a 100 grain Cor-Lokt bullet. The new model could also shoot any .244 ammunition. Previous Remington 722 rifles made after 1957 with 1 in 9-inch twist could also shoot the newer 6mm 100 grain ammunition.5
Remington labeled their new 100 grain bullet ammunition as "6mm" when introduced. However Remington continued to manufacture and label the 75 and 90 grain bullet ammunition as ".244" for a number of years. From the late 1960s until the early 1970s Remington transitioned to labeling all such ammunition regardless of bullet grain weight only as "6mm."

 

[SDMF]

Starting a cartridge with a 57MM (2.25") case OAL into a 2.8" OAL magazine was wrong-headed from the get-go. It's hard to make a gain over the 1/4" shorter 243Win given how much body taper the 6 has and the 243 doesn't have.

1:12 was another giant mistake.

Remington spent decades under the belief: "If we build it, they will buy."

 

[jtillman]

What bullets have you tried reloading? What kind of upper do you have and how many shots through it? I bought a BCA 6.5 grendel upper and put it on an anderson lower. It took about 100 rounds or so, but it eventually started shooting pretty well. I tried out some 95 grain vmax handloads and also some 107TMK handloads. The 107TMK handloads I made up shoot about 3/4" which for me and a coyote gun is perfectly fine. Never could get the 95vmax to shoot any better than about 1.5" @100 yards.

I haven't reloaded anything with this yet as I haven't seen much in stock for the 100gr or 120gr Barnes available lately. The Hornady's I shot where the 'Black' stock loads and the 123gr SST (both about a 4-5" grouping at 100 yds). American Eagle 120gr match bullets were roughly 2-2.5" groupings as were some cheap Wolf ammo. I tried some Fusion and they weren't good either. The Federal Gold Medal Berger's shot like I had expected the Grendels to shoot, right at a 1" grouping with an occasional flyer (shooter related).

It's a BCA upper on my Ruger lower....If I'm not over that 100 rounds mark, I'm REALLY close, so that's encouraging that you went through the same. I have a BCA in .450 Bushmaster Upper that has been amazing out of the box, so that's what I was expecting with the Grendel. Thanks for the load info, I'll check the 107's out and will report back when I can get my hands on some Barnes.

 

[Enslow]

The fast twist barrels are really fun. I make fun of the 6.5 creedmoor but as sdmf said it was rolled out in a very nice package with barrels that stabilize the high b.c. Bullets. I just had a .240 weatherby built a 1:7 twist and really looking forward to shooting 110 grain bullets. The gunsmith said he builds tons of 6.5 creedmoors too. Moral of the story with caliber options is that they are ALL good and buy what you want!

 

[BrokenBackJack]

The 6.5 Creedmore is a nice gun for kids and little women from what i have seen. Just not something i want or need.
Back in the day when we did tons of hunting all over, always used our 22-250 on antelope, deer, rodents & varmits. Killed'em dead and never had to chase them to put another round into them. Always called that gun our meat gun because if you missed it sure as heck wasn't the guns fault. Tack drivers each and everyone we have. It boils down to know what you are shooting and practice, practice, practice.
If you know your gun and know how to shoot it, it will be lethal.
Wouldn't mind shooting some Javelina's down here as they are one ugly sucker!

 

[Migrator Man]

If you have a gun that shoots 120-150 grain bullets there is no reason to buy a 6.5 creedmore. If you want 6.5 ballistics get a 6.5 PRC or 6.5 -300 WBY. Even if you have a 7mm rem mag a 6.5 may be marginally better.

 

[Kurtr]

If you have a gun that shoots 120-150 grain bullets there is no reason to buy a 6.5 creedmore. If you want 6.5 ballistics get a 6.5 PRC or 6.5 -300 WBY. Even if you have a 7mm rem mag a 6.5 may be marginally better.

If your shooting less than 156 grain bullets with the prc or the abortion that is the weatherby your doing it wrong. 7 rem mag is a belted magnum that’s burns 20 grains more powder. 7 rem with a 168 or higher will out run the creedmoor every day but that’s just ballistics and physics which it seems is an odd concept.

 

[Mr. Stevenson]

- - - Updated - - -

you’re comparing the 17 Remington center fire vs the 17 hmr????

Not really. That wasn't the point.

- - - Updated - - -

Remington has been tone deaf regarding rimfires in general since they discontinued the 541 IMO. Remington also routinely made exceptionally poor commercial launches of new cartridges/chamberings. They've also been painfully slow to acknowledge when others have been successful.

The 1:12 twist 244/6MM. They used a case that didn't fit well into their short action and then twisted it such that most folks would only use it for a varmint rifle. There weren't really any "stout" projectiles under 85gn for the 6mm in the 1950's.

The 7MM Rem Express. Americans traditionally don't adopt the cartridges named in "mm's", the 7MM Rem mag being the one glaring example to the contrary. They should've called it the .280Rem from the get-go and they should've forgone any semiautomatic version in order to load it to the same 63-64K PSI that Winchester was loading the .270 to.

The 8MM Rem Mag should've been "The" elk cartridge every elk hunter aspired to obtain. However, Rem loaded the factory ammo with dogshit projectiles that were far too fragile for the velocity they obtained. A 200-225gn Partition in factory ammo would've cemented the 8MM as "Elk King". As offered, even Boddington couldn't get that job done despite nearly 2 decades of trying.

Remington had Carbon-fiber wrapped bbls on factory rifles in the late-90's. They didn't know where to niche them or how to explain whey they believed the benefits were, so they threw a few options out on the market and it flopped.

Etronx, everybody and their brother just knew that those electronic primers would someday be impossible to find.

I like the M 700 rifle. The marketing and post-launch support from Big Green however has been very poor at best.

Good read. Amen

 

[Downrigger]

what bullet do you run in the 30-378

180 swift is what it likes. Wanted to shoot a 200 participant and it does shoot them.....at about 4 moa

 

[Petras]

I haven't reloaded anything with this yet as I haven't seen much in stock for the 100gr or 120gr Barnes available lately. The Hornady's I shot where the 'Black' stock loads and the 123gr SST (both about a 4-5" grouping at 100 yds). American Eagle 120gr match bullets were roughly 2-2.5" groupings as were some cheap Wolf ammo. I tried some Fusion and they weren't good either. The Federal Gold Medal Berger's shot like I had expected the Grendels to shoot, right at a 1" grouping with an occasional flyer (shooter related).

It's a BCA upper on my Ruger lower....If I'm not over that 100 rounds mark, I'm REALLY close, so that's encouraging that you went through the same. I have a BCA in .450 Bushmaster Upper that has been amazing out of the box, so that's what I was expecting with the Grendel. Thanks for the load info, I'll check the 107's out and will report back when I can get my hands on some Barnes.

I never really could get any factory ammo to shoot very well, but I only tried a few. A lot of guys have had the same thing happen with their BCA uppers, typically 100-200 rounds and then it starts to tighten up... It's a cheap arse complete upper... ya get what ya pay for and the rifling may not be the cleanest until a few rounds are put through it. I've been contemplaying trying out the 100 TTSX myself as I have yet to shoot a yote with the 107tmk, but all the results I've seen online show they are pretty devastating on a pelt. I think for saving pelts the 100 ttsx will be pretty good if a guy can make it shoot. I've only tried loading barnes bullets one time and it was in a 240 wby magnum. Was able to get groups around an inch, but it took a ton of tweaking and testing... Because of this, I've steered clear of barnes bullets. I've had excellent results with sierra bullets in everything I've loaded them for.

 

[jdinny]

105 gr berger VLD from the 6mm manbun did not in fact bounce off the antelope. 200ish yard qtring away shot. snuck liver, exited opposite front shoulder. dropped dead after about a 40 yard sprint after contact. insides were destroyed. yeah ill keep shooting my bergersThumbs Up