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  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
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    Thread: Brush Gun

    1. Back To Top    #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by PrairieGhost View Post
      Considering the length of te bullet the caliber woukd increase with any tilt off axis. Keyholeing the 44 would be about 80 caliber, and likewise for the 45. With the 405 gr in the 45/70 a keyhole woukd be about 1.20 caliber. I didn't measure I just estimated from memory. My neighbors house is on fire so I don't want to go back to our house right now.Attachment 60068
      Wow

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      Neat

    2. Back To Top    #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by PrairieGhost View Post
      Maybe 30 or even 40 years ago a fellow published his experiment in Outdoor Life. He had 1/4 in his dowels 1/4 inch apart in a 2x4 board set in front of a target. He set his dowels at two feet in front, then six feet in front and then ten feet in front. Maybe the lever guns in large calibers were short handling in brush and so gained that reputation, but they didn't shoot brush bullets. People have the image of big bullets busting their way through everything, but not so. The large diameter bullets deflected most while the small long bullets deflected the least. The winning cartridge was the Italian 6.5 Carcano. I would guess the faster spinning bullet spinning around a smaller axis would be less easily disrupted.
      Holy shit!! Blast from the past!! I read that in eighth grade!! Jim Carmichel!! I caused quite the argument at Grandma's house and didn't have the magazine for evidence!! This, for real, was my first step to fucking hating retarded/ignorant egos and trying to maintain my integrity. History will judge me with mixed results.

      - - - Updated - - -

      FUN FACT: Carmichel replaced O'Connor (the exaggerator) in July 1979. Wish I still had the mag. I can still see the cover.

      - - - Updated - - -

      A few years later he cut a Browning 7Rem bbl inch by inch and achieved the greatest velocity at 16ish(?) which confounded him. Remember that?

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      Last edited by Mr. Stevenson; 06-10-2021 at 11:03 PM.

    3. Back To Top    #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by SDMF View Post
      The predictability rivals predicting how many times a flat rock will skip on a wavy day.
      I understand and much appreciate a contrarian sensibility.

      Do you truly believe a bullet deviated from it's axis at a "6-24"inch distance from impact into an eight in circle can result in a disgusting scenario? IMO tumbling may improve the performance of a PP or "blue box" Federal within the above parameters: At 50yds.

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    4. Back To Top    #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Stevenson View Post
      Do you truly believe a bullet deviated from it's axis at a "6-24"inch distance from impact into an eight in circle can result in a disgusting scenario?
      Yes. I believe it could turn a "good shot" into a "gut shot" either by changing the flight path and/or by something wonky happening when the bullet finds flesh and traction.

      A slower and perhaps easier to visualize model. There's a car @ say 60-70MPH spinning like a top completely out of control on ice. What happens when the car finds dry ground/traction? It all depends upon the attitude of the car when it does. A good driver with a bit of luck might catch the dry just right and drive out of it like a boss looking like he meant to. A great driver who's unlucky might end up catching dry ground sideways and turn the spin into a roll. Somewhere in between and you're in the ditch on one side or the other, maybe wheels up, maybe wheels down.

      444 and 45-70 w/1:20" twist shooting Leverrevolution ammo @ 2325fps and 2050fps are spinning bullets just over and just under 200,000 RPM respectively. Anything turning that fast doesn't like to be touched and certainly isn't predictable once it's been touched.

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      This has been like listening to Nancy Pelosi argue with Ozzy Osborne.

    5. Back To Top    #25
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      I think there is a big difference in tumbling before impact and tumbling after impact. Certainly we do not want a bullet tumbling before impact. I was watching a utube yesterday that I should search for this morning. A fellow sent a box of 9mm to utuber for testing. They were very pointed full metal designed to feed perfectly, shoot straight, but tumble on impact. In ballistics gel they traveled straight for about six inches then tumbled. The wound channel when tumbling was comparable to a good hollow point. I remember as a child the old WWII guys talking about one of our war opponents that used a bullet that was long tumbled. They said fellow soldiers got messed up badly when hit by tumbling bullets. I prefer mine fly straight to a small desired point of impact, but after that I want it to kill any way it can. When deep penetration is desired on dangerouse game I think tumbling would be a very bad thing.

      Edit: found it.

      Found this one too.

      I like accuracy so will not choose a rifle bullet that may have any in flight instability. Back to the subject of brush guns I think any confusion comes from the differentiation between brush gun and brush bullet. I have a Ruger Predator with an 18 inch barrel in 308 Win. It's a nice brush gun, but a 6.5 would be a better brush bullet.

      Have you ever experimented with a gyroscope? The faster it spins the harder it is to turn 90 degrees in your hand. Much like a spinning top. A slow spinning top if touched tumbles around on the table and stops. A fast spinning top if touched with your finger simply moves aside slightly. Fast spinning bullets have this same gyroscope stability when flight is disrupted.

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      Last edited by PrairieGhost; 06-11-2021 at 10:20 AM.

    6. Back To Top    #26
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      I have a nice, light, compact 7.62x39 AR15 that is absolutely delightful with a suppressor. Inasmuch as I’d thoroughly enjoy it as a brush gun, the need to fill the tag and my freezer without wounding a few “practice deer” along the way seems more appealing. Would be fun from a tree stand or ground blind out to 100 though…

      I’ve rolled a couple running does inside 100 yds with a .308 16” AR and it’s super fun.

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      If you're reading this post and find yourself muttering, "he can't be serious", there's a good chance I'm not.

      Kurtr has killed more elk than me.

    7. Back To Top    #27
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      IF and I do mean IF you believe there is a firearm (brush gun) that can shoot through brush in an effort to accurately kill a deer, my ONLY choice would be a 12 ga shotgun with buckshot. Multiple projectiles along multiple trajectories will have a greater chance of finding unobstructed flight paths and actually hit the target where desired. Even with that, a brush gun to me is akin to a hunter that doesn't miss. Even AIR ie. wind changes the flight path of a bullet. How folks don't think solid substances won't deflect a bullet when pure air does is beyond me.

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    8. Back To Top    #28
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      Is a 243 a good wind gun?

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    9. Back To Top    #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by KDM View Post
      IF and I do mean IF you believe there is a firearm (brush gun) that can shoot through brush in an effort to accurately kill a deer, my ONLY choice would be a 12 ga shotgun with buckshot. Multiple projectiles along multiple trajectories will have a greater chance of finding unobstructed flight paths and actually hit the target where desired. Even with that, a brush gun to me is akin to a hunter that doesn't miss. Even AIR ie. wind changes the flight path of a bullet. How folks don't think solid substances won't deflect a bullet when pure air does is beyond me.
      Round pellets don't go all "wounded-duck" when they hit stuff..........

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      This has been like listening to Nancy Pelosi argue with Ozzy Osborne.

    10. Back To Top    #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by SDMF View Post
      Round pellets don't go all "wounded-duck" when they hit stuff..........
      They sure do deflect though. I have tried many times to hit a squirrel through very small twigs with a 180 gr round ball in my 50 cal Hawken and most often missed.

      There are good short quick to swing brush guns, but there are no good brush bullets. That said small diameter long fast spinning bullets are the least deflected.

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      Last edited by PrairieGhost; 06-11-2021 at 10:23 AM.

    11. Back To Top    #31
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      Is a 243 a good wind gun? Yup but they won't kill deer.

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      if you have to shoot deer in the brush at close range cant beat shotgun with 00 buck or 04 buckshot

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    13. Back To Top    #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by KDM View Post
      IF and I do mean IF you believe there is a firearm (brush gun) that can shoot through brush in an effort to accurately kill a deer, my ONLY choice would be a 12 ga shotgun with buckshot. Multiple projectiles along multiple trajectories will have a greater chance of finding unobstructed flight paths and actually hit the target where desired. Even with that, a brush gun to me is akin to a hunter that doesn't miss. Even AIR ie. wind changes the flight path of a bullet. How folks don't think solid substances won't deflect a bullet when pure air does is beyond me.
      So do YOU believe a 50yd animal a foot or two behind a branch, etc would be unethically wounded?

      For the record: I'm not a fucktard who takes low percentage shots. At all. My mind is full of passed game. I'm confident a miss with all the guns I own is operator error.


      Buckshot is only ethically effective to 25yds with PERFECT equipment/conditions.

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    14. Back To Top    #34
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      Mr. Stevenson;323364]So do YOU believe a 50yd animal a foot or two behind a branch, etc would be unethically wounded?
      As opposed to ethically wounded? That depends on range and amount of vital area the branch is covering. If you hit the branch I don't know the percentage of chance that deflection would cause a miss or wound, but it's higher than we like. If the branch is two inches thick and the deer is 50 yards there is plenty of vital exposed and the shot should be a gimme.

      For the record: I'm not a fucktard who takes low percentage shots. At all. My mind is full of passed game. I'm confident a miss with all the guns I own is operator error.
      My guns also, but I sure have had some scopes crap out on me.


      Buckshot is only ethically effective to 25yds with PERFECT equipment/conditions.
      I agree. My humor gets me in trouble with modern tinkerbells so I better pass that up.

      Edit: Unless you shooting at a ___________. Then any range that gives you a 10% chance of putting a pellet in them is acceptable. Tinkerbells will insert something most offendable because they love to be offended.

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      Last edited by PrairieGhost; 06-13-2021 at 06:32 AM.

    15. Back To Top    #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Stevenson View Post
      So do YOU believe a 50yd animal a foot or two behind a branch, etc would be unethically wounded?

      For the record: I'm not a fucktard who takes low percentage shots. At all. My mind is full of passed game. I'm confident a miss with all the guns I own is operator error.


      Buckshot is only ethically effective to 25yds with PERFECT equipment/conditions.
      Ethics are like eyeballs, everybody has some and they vary from person to person. That said, an animal behind a branch is NOT a clear shot and should be avoided IMO. Basic hunter safety here. We could play the "What If" game all day if you want, but it won't make a difference. Brush in front of you target increases the chances of one, a bad hit or two a ricochet that can go anywhere regardless of how good a shot one thinks they are. Is taking a shot with increased chances of bad outcomes ethical?? I'd say no. Will a bullet go through a branch and strike the target a foot or two behind it?? IDK. My magic 8 Ball is broken and my crystal ball is cracked. Given a choice, I would wait for a clear shot regardless of weapon, but to each their own.

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    16. Back To Top    #36
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      I somehow always shot em in the arse anyway.

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