No sir that deer is not a tirty pointer but is actually a 57 pointer



Rowdie

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I think he was saying not banning HF operations is conservotive as in not liberal ideology. Not trying to put words in anyone's mouth.
 

PrairieGhost

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I guessed that, and from that point of view I woukd agree. On the other hand I think conservatives are for banning some things. It depends on our point of view. For example I would ban citizenship for anyone who entered this country illegally. I would ban abortion. I would ban ANTIFA from holding ities hostage. Laws are much like bans, and laws are the building blocks of civilization. Liberal laws destroy civilization. Points of view determine what we see as restrictive or enhancing civilization. I didnt intend to challenge Kurt, its just that some statements stimulate thought. I got sidetracked because in the past I had a high fence proponent that said they were great conservationists and I misread Kurt's original statement.
 
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Kurtr

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While the laws you stayed are hard to argue against we are talking about an animal in a pen. People making a living legally and some one taking it away. It does not affect another human if some one shoots an animal in a fence. You may not like it but just because you don’t like something does not mean it should go away. The same people that don’t like high fence don’t like guides because they are killing wild life for their profit but wouldn’t they rather them kill animals that have been raised and are not wild life but live stock? I think hunting roosts should be illegal but understand their are people from Minnesota and just because I don’t like it they aren’t going to make a law for me.
 

PrairieGhost

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People making a living legally
I have heard that argument many times, but it makes no sense. Think about it. At one time nearly everything was legal. The old west had opium houses. Shoukd we have taken that away from people who were doing it legally? If you remember the original Coca-Cola had a lot more kick. Shoukd we have taken that away? We have passed laws to control morality for those who coukd not control it on their own. Planned Parenthood takes millions of lives, but they make a legal living doing it. That justification would lead us back to the dark ages.
 

JMF

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I have heard that argument many times, but it makes no sense. Think about it. At one time nearly everything was legal. The old west had opium houses. Shoukd we have taken that away from people who were doing it legally? If you remember the original Coca-Cola had a lot more kick. Shoukd we have taken that away? We have passed laws to control morality for those who coukd not control it on their own. Planned Parenthood takes millions of lives, but they make a legal living doing it. That justification would lead us back to the dark ages.

So you are making high fence hunting a morality issue? FFS...

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BTW, high fence hunting isn't for me, but I will defend someones right to do it. I believe in personal property rights.
 

Rowdie

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So you are making high fence hunting a morality issue? FFS...

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BTW, high fence hunting isn't for me, but I will defend someones right to do it. I believe in personal property rights.


I believe HF hunts are definitely a "morality issue" not so much the shooting of live stock, but said ownership of wildlife. I know these animals were born and raised as stock but at some point in history they were taken from the wild.

I link HF to the morality of prostitution. How can the government stop someone from conducting a private sale on private property with consenting adults. Oh and if no money exchanges it's perfectly legal. It's ALL about morality IMO
 

NDSportsman

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So you are making high fence hunting a morality issue? FFS...

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BTW, high fence hunting isn't for me, but I will defend someones right to do it. I believe in personal property rights.
So do you think dog or cock fighting should be legal too?
 


Fritz the Cat

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I believe HF hunts are definitely a "morality issue" not so much the shooting of live stock, but said ownership of wildlife. I know these animals were born and raised as stock but at some point in history they were taken from the wild.

I link HF to the morality of prostitution. How can the government stop someone from conducting a private sale on private property with consenting adults. Oh and if no money exchanges it's perfectly legal. It's ALL about morality IMO

The great herds of Bison were wiped out across the plains. Homesteaders along the Musselshells River in Montana didn't allow buffalo hunters to come on their property and kill them.

Elk were also in dire straights. Gone from the Appalachia, the Great Plains. Few pockets remained in the Rocky Mountain States. The US Biological Survey worked together with Homesteaders to bring them back. They traded genetics, traded animals, traded feed stuffs.

The US Biological Survey even sold some to landowners for a twenty dollar gold piece. An ounce of gold is worth what today? I believe they paid a fair price. The US Biological Survey was the forerunner to the US Fish and Wildlife Service. There are plenty of elk now thanks to people working together. However, the US Fish and Wildlife Service has since changed its position. It would like to over regulate farmed Cervids out of business. Ethics and disease are simply a lot of dust kicked up to accomplish their goal.

That should answer Rowdie's question as to how people acquired cervids.
 

lunkerslayer

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I know it's been awhile that there was a story about a sanctuary where you could bid on the deer or whatever that you wanted to kill. Is that type of hunting outlawed here in the states.This article doesn't seem like that to me I am not familiar with the whole high fence hunting. Would fort rigley be considered a high fence unit seems to be a lot of be bucks taken from that area?
 

Rowdie

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I think he's bringing up that government CAN make laws based on morality by citing examples. Just like government CAN and should fix mistakes it made in the past. Or in this case, ownership of deer and elk, could correct and adjust laws or policies of owning them. A century has passed, land has been settled, and the situation of deer/elk heard is drastically different.
 

NDSportsman

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Are you seriously comparing shooting a raised animal in a HF to dog fighting? How do you feel about eating beef or pork?
You said it was all about personal property rights. Well dogs and chickens are personal property.

I love eating beef and pork.......and deer and elk for that matter. Not sure what that has to do with the high fence hunting debate though.
 


JMF

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You said it was all about personal property rights. Well dogs and chickens are personal property.

I love eating beef and pork.......and deer and elk for that matter. Not sure what that has to do with the high fence hunting debate though.

Lol, ok. Raising deer and elk is legal. Dog and cock fighting isn't. So yes, I believe in allowing personal property rights within the laws set forth by the people. I may not agree with them but i believe in the process in which they are made.
 

Fritz the Cat

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Rowdie;330172[B said:
]I think he's bringing up that government CAN make laws based on morality by citing examples. [/B] Just like government CAN and should fix mistakes it made in the past. Or in this case, ownership of deer and elk, could correct and adjust laws or policies of owning them. A century has passed, land has been settled, and the situation of deer/elk heard is drastically different.

Public perception is important. A license to operate a business can be revoked if care isn't taken to guard ones image. Sometimes things can get out of control. Is burning coal moral? The public is turning against coal, not because they are a bad neighbor, but more because someone is printing untruths.

NDSportsmen loves eating beef and pork. While we all laugh at the crazies reporting about cows burping and farting methane, there are a lot of people switching to veggie burgers.

And what about public perception concerning hunting? Will future generations tolerate your blood sport? High fence low fence or no fence, we need to be careful about banning things.

Getting back to the original post of a 57 point deer. I do not condone that. I like a symmetrical rack. Way more important than the score. It was a thing for awhile where sportsmen wanted a bigger score. The only way to get there was ugly non-typical. Those days have past. Sportsmen don't want them.
 

Mort

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Never understood the reason a deer, fish, or whatever game gets killed/caught, and the guy doing the killing/catching feels like some sort of champion, as if they had anything to do with the size of the rack/fish.

Its fun as hell to get a trophy or two here and there, but whoopty fucking doo.

And then to cheat at it and claim hero status...haha

Yup, Then they walk around all high and mighty with a ' I want a badge stuck to my ass attitude '
 

PrairieGhost

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And what about public perception concerning hunting? Will future generations tolerate your blood sport? High fence low fence or no fence, we need to be careful about banning things.
I completely agree. The anti hunting crowd loves to portray all hunters as those who shoot Bambi fenced in and eating out of the owners hand while we stick the gun barrel in Bambis ear. While disease is of great concern the public image endangers an American heritage.

Lol, ok. Raising deer and elk is legal. Dog and cock fighting isn't. So yes, I believe in allowing personal property rights within the laws set forth by the people. I may not agree with them but i believe in the process in which they are made.
Actually you don't, because pushing for a ban means enacting a law and this is the process you say you believe in. Property rights are not absolute. You can not grow and process popies. You cant have a brothel on your land in North Dakota. I use the absurd as examples because believing in total property rights has been absurd forever.
 
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JMF

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I completely agree. The anti hunting crowd loves to portray all hunters as those who shoot Bambi fenced in and eating out of the owners hand while we stick the gun barrel in Bambis ear. While disease is of great concern the public image endangers an American heritage.

Actually you don't, because pushing for a ban means enacting a law and this is the process you say you believe in. Property rights are not absolute. You can not grow and process popies. You cant have a brothel on your land in North Dakota. I use the absurd as examples because believing in total property rights has been absurd forever.

No shit sherlock. Again, growing poppies and brothels are illegal, owning deer and elk isn't. If you want to push a ban to make owning them illegal go for it, that's your right. Until then quit your bitching.
 


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