6.5 Match in Ballistic Gel

guywhofishes

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At 686 yards a 145gr LRX @ 3125FPS out of a 7mm will pencil through a mule deer. Shot him twice, hits were 1.5 inches apart right behind the front shoulder, neither expanded at all.

help an average joe shmoe shooter out here....

Isn't it possible for any bullet to get "unlucky", miss the ribs on the flight in, and then fly through nothing but lung... which is like pie meringue?

What tissue is there to even expand on in some cases?

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and also - the muley didn't go down near the impact location?
 


risingsun

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ok. that makes sense. and i suppose the more a person stretches things the more those slight differences become noticeable. thanks.

THAT right there is :;:exactly what she said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

JMF

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help an average joe shmoe shooter out here....

Isn't it possible for any bullet to get "unlucky", miss the ribs on the flight in, and then fly through nothing but lung... which is like pie meringue?

What tissue is there to even expand on in some cases?

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and also - the muley didn't go down near the impact location?

I imagine it is, but 2 bullets in a row? The bullets still had more than enough velocity and kinetic energy to open as they are designed going through the hide of a mule deer. I've had much better results in similar situations with other bullets. I never argued they were a bad bullet, I know they work for others. I was only stating my experience.

The deer was laying within 10 feet of where he was standing for the first shot, but still very much alive for the 20 minutes it took to get to him.
 
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JMF

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fascinating - alive but down

drowning like an archery lung shot?

Yes, but like you were using field points. I only expect a bullet or bullets put into the right spot to create more internal hemorrhaging. With the shot placement of both bullets the deer should have been dead in seconds.

To point out again that these were the Barnes LRX's, I know several people having great luck with the barnes TTSX and the TSX
 


PrairieGhost

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300 Win mag groups under .2 inch with hunting bullets. I shoot coyotes with match because they are $3 cheaper per 100. I also kill a lot of steel so like to shoot something that shoots like my hunting bullet, but cost less.
 
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You

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Yes, but like you were using field points. I only expect a bullet or bullets put into the right spot to create more internal hemorrhaging. With the shot placement of both bullets the deer should have been dead in seconds.

To point out again that these were the Barnes LRX's, I know several people having great luck with the barnes TTSX and the TSX

How many fps @ 686?
 

JMF

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How many fps @ 686?

Don't know off hand how fast it was at 686, I'm not at home to pull up old ballistic charts, but it was 3125 at the muzzle.
 
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You

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Roughly 1900 fps and KE was 1160 @686

Flirting with the published minimum speed required for bullet expansion. Consider the air density, temp, wind of the day you shot vs the day Barnes established the minimum and maybe impact fps was JUST below where it needed to be. My expectations for expansion @ 700 with a bullet known for very controlled expansion are lower than yours. I bet most softer lead pills at that speed would've deformed/shroomed.
 


PrairieGhost

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If I remember correctly the old X bullets before the poly tips said mushrooming occurred down to 1700 fps. I remember their original advertisement for the poly tips. They said enhanced ballistic coefficient and the tip initiated expansion.

I still have four boxes of X bullets on hand. I use some of the bullets in this picture in 308. The 180 gr round nose are great subsonic. 20210929_084526.jpg

I think I have shot over 2000 rounds of X bullets in 223, 22-250, 243, 270 Win, 308 Win, and300 Win. The triple shock was their greatest improvement. In my 300 Win everything has been replaced with these, but only the 210 gr. The lighter VLDs are for 308 Win.20210929_084532.jpg
 
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JMF

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Flirting with the published minimum speed required for bullet expansion. Consider the air density, temp, wind of the day you shot vs the day Barnes established the minimum and maybe impact fps was JUST below where it needed to be. My expectations for expansion @ 700 with a bullet known for very controlled expansion are lower than yours. I bet most softer lead pills at that speed would've deformed/shroomed.

Back in 2012 when this took place Barnes listed 1800 FPS minimum on the TSX and TTSX. They stated 1600 FPS minimum for the LRX.
 

You

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Back in 2012 when this took place Barnes listed 1800 FPS minimum on the TSX and TTSX. They stated 1600 FPS minimum for the LRX.

Interesting no doubt. You shot a 2 shot 1.5" group at 700, time to thread the chrono needle at the same distance and see what the load registers real-world? It'd be fun....something I'd do (after swapping the steel chrono arms with wood dowels).

I bet guys meringue comment is a factor. Assuming Barnes established those minimums with calibrated blocks of ballistic gel.
 
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JMF

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Interesting no doubt. You shot a 2 shot 1.5" group at 700, time to thread the chrono needle at the same distance and see what the load registers real-world? It'd be fun....something I'd do (after swapping the steel chrono arms with wood dowels).

I bet guys meringue comment is a factor. Assuming Barnes established those minimums with calibrated blocks of ballistic gel.

I can assure you that was a one in a million group for me. That would be a fun experiment, if you'll borrow me your chrono. I bet a labradar would work good though.
 

You

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20210929_133254.jpg

I've been known to use me some Barnes. Here are the 5 I've recovered.

1. ML whitetail, 150 yds broadside, tickled the bottom of the spine, drt

2. .243 whitetail, 20 yds facing away, canoe pelvis, resting in pericardium, drt

3. 7mm08 black bear, 20 yds broadside, found 6" into earth, bear went 40 with no heart.

4. 7mm mag elk, 250 yds broadside double lung. No bang flop but drt after some thought.

5. 7mm mag moose, 100 yds broadside double lung. No bang flop but drt after 3 pills and some thought.
 


SupressYourself

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Lucky. I've never been able recover a Barnes. They've all passed through so far. There is something to be said about them not expending all of their energy inside the animal, but I don't like lead in my food, and I've never had a Barnes-shot animal get away, so I'll stick with them for the edible game.
 

PrairieGhost

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I think the Barns X has improved. I know PMC ammo is rather anemic, but my oldest son out three 165gr out of his 300 Win into a modest size buck. From first shot to second shot was about 100 yards. Second shot to third shot was about 400 yards. That said like SuppressYourself we have never lost an animal with an X bullet. However out of state we always hunt public land and we didn't want an animal to run in front of a guy who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a shovel and listen to the "I got him, I got him". I think the poly tips open them much more reliably. If you shoot an animal lengthwise I am sure you will get more cubic centimeters of tissue damage than a conventional bullet will give you.
 

sweeney

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This year I shot a 6.5 creed with 130 gr eld-m at deer, with 45gr of 6.5 staball powder at 2800fps 2265 ft/lbs at muzzle in a 24" barrel. The buck was at 340 yards it was a vital area shot behind front shoulder, not hitting shoulder on either side. The buck took 3 steps up the hill and fell back down. Ballistics roughly 2280 fps 1500ft/lbs at distance according to my app. Entrance was a minimal wound not much over bullet diameter, exit was a little smaller than a tennis ball sized hole, so no bullet recovery yet was very effective. The only other bullet performance info I personally have using the eld-m was a head shot at 300 yards (2355fps and 1600ft/lbs at distance) made soup of the cavity and entered behind ear exited near the forehead instant death.

Not my bullet of choice or caliber but I will no longer worry about using them if it is all I have available with proper bullet placement they are 2 for 2 with me. I know of several people who have used them at longer range in faster calibers, with good success also according to them, one of the main reasons I wanted to try them out this year.

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rezbuck1.jpg
 
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