Gas or Electric

7mmMag

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2015
Posts
951
Likes
129
Points
228
Location
SE ND
I don't see them working here anytime soon for my needs. I also don't believe they are as "green" as they are made out to be, just the lithium alone is an environmental mess. Then add in producing electricity. When I last researched, the price of an electric charge on a Tesla was similar in price to $2.40 gas.

With all that said, I don't think it's a fad. These companies aren't all leaning this way because of political pressure. There are real, honest benefits to electric vehicles. Instant, 100% torque is one of them, which would be significant for towing. Four wheel drive and instant torque will probably better most trucks out there today. The challenge is range.....once you get up to speed, how fast will you drain your battery? The other thing that would be helpful for towing, specifically downhill, is regenerative braking. You have a built in engine brake that will help recharge your batteries when going down a steep grade. One of the biggest issues though is charging. First, how many Tesla stations are trailer friendly? Haven't seen one yet. Second, think about the capacity needed to charge a lot of tow vehicles. Think a truck stop with 300 trucks in it, LOTS of power needed. Electrical companies don't have the grid to back it up right now.

Volvo is working hard on electric semi's. They claim that through the elimination of the drivetrain, electric drivetrains are many times more efficient than traditional. Power storage is once again the issue.

Remember that first Black & Decker drill from the early 90's? Batteries lasted about 20 screws? Today we have electric ice augers, weed eaters, and chainsaws. I use a 40v battery on my circular saw and can cut sheathing for 4 hours straight on one battery. Vehicles are going to advance just the same IMO, like it or not.

Everything you said is spot on!
 


guywhofishes

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Posts
28,632
Likes
3,840
Points
948
Location
Faaargo, ND
they’re working on technology that will make the road itself an energy delivery system

like the electric streetcars of yesteryear

maybe that’s the long haul approach that will succeed
 

Up Y'oars

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 16, 2015
Posts
2,257
Likes
58
Points
278
Location
Bismarck
From the power grid perspective nothing in the country can handle the necessary transmission of electricity than what is currently on the grid right now. For wind power to flow coal generation units have to cut back (by FERC requirements = Federal Energy Regulatory Commission). They can't both be going at the same time.

Now, go 15yrs into the future, unless the fed gov't will pay for a BUNCH of new transmission lines (at $1.5mil per mile) across the country the plugging cars into the wall will only result with bunches of brown outs / black outs. Even this summer Gov. Newsom asked all Californians to cut back on plugging their electric cars into the wall so that the energy can keep lights and A.C. going. What's the Plan B if this continues for California??? HA HA HA
 

riverview

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Posts
2,983
Likes
790
Points
398
So how much does it cost to charge a electric car at these new charging stations? Do they mark up electricity like a gas station does? How long do these fast chargers charge a vehicle
 

snow1

★★★★★ Legendary Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2021
Posts
1,875
Likes
16
Points
151
From the power grid perspective nothing in the country can handle the necessary transmission of electricity than what is currently on the grid right now. For wind power to flow coal generation units have to cut back (by FERC requirements = Federal Energy Regulatory Commission). They can't both be going at the same time.

Now, go 15yrs into the future, unless the fed gov't will pay for a BUNCH of new transmission lines (at $1.5mil per mile) across the country the plugging cars into the wall will only result with bunches of brown outs / black outs. Even this summer Gov. Newsom asked all Californians to cut back on plugging their electric cars into the wall so that the energy can keep lights and A.C. going. What's the Plan B if this continues for California??? HA HA HA

LOL,agreed....these clowns don't sweat the small stuff,it's all about the "now" fuzzy warm feeling and getting the well done trophy,never mind the power grids or what happens to these shoe box cars in 10 years when they all take a shit,"then what?"can't recycle these lithium batteries.


river~ 120watt charge about 10 hours,240 2-4 hours...these quick charge stations I'm told 10 minutes...not sure tho...

I remember the first year the Chevy volt came out,the cost to home owners to increase to 240 was about a $1500 tag.federal tax credit for ownership of said EV vehicle was $7500,not sure what the numbers are today?

For me regarding GM's powertrain/battery,all "made in china" not sure about these other EV tho..


Today look around at your local car lot's,zero inventory,the hold up is micro chips coming from china(cheaper to out source) last spring a dealer sent me a pdf on a 2021 3500 crew cab,diesel $96k!!! JHC!!

Anyone thinking "I need a new vehicle" best wait or put your nutt's in a vice,most dealers are selling getting sticker price or more in some cases....rebates? not much to speak of.this issue of lack of new vehicle inventory is driving up used vehicle prices as well,good time for folks to sell any use vehicle right now iffin ya have a second family vehicle or bike to ride.
 
Last edited:


sl1000794

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 10, 2015
Posts
4,730
Likes
161
Points
298
Comparing my electric bill in the SF Bay Area to my bill from NCEC at Metigoshe, my CA bill at the highest rate is 4 times my NCEC bill at it's highest rate, so cost of charging varies by where you live in the US! I haven't seen anybody comment on this. Charging cost should always be calculated at your highest rate because with a gas/diesel vehicle you would not use the electricity.
 
Last edited:

lunkerslayer

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Posts
18,956
Likes
2,959
Points
748
Location
Cavalier, ND

JayKay

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Posts
6,726
Likes
436
Points
348
Location
Southeast Bismarck
My mistake Snow, you are right. I was thinking Volt. Didn't even know about the Bolt, other than the Yamaha motorcycle.

Nephew currently drives a hybrid prius. But he's a single guy, no kids, etc. Doesn't need the room, doesn't need to pull anything. I must admit, the mileage sounds nice.

The new electric F150 is interesting when you open the hood. Nothing in there, but a huge trunk. Even more storage space. I've never said "that's nice, but I wish it didn't have so much space".

Buddy here in Bismarck just bought a hybrid electric Toyota Rav4. Interesting. We'll see how it does in the winter. For in-town driving like he does, it's likely to be fine.

Pulled out of my driveway the other day, and it was completely silent, except it played some sounds out of some outside speakers, so people would know it's backing up. Apparently you can change the sounds to whatever you like. I would choose the sounds of Clydesdales galloping.
 

SDMF

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Posts
10,908
Likes
620
Points
438
I was in Seattle for a meeting back in July. I took an Uber from the hotel back to the airport when the meeting was done. Uber driver had a ~4-5yr old Tesla 3?? It rode nice, was as quiet as any other 4-door sedan, just heard the tire/road noise. Had IIRC ~250Mi range and he'd usually find someplace to quick-charge when he took his lunch break. He had it figured that a quick-charge during the day and long charge @ home overnight was costing him <$15/day. If one is 90% urban driving I'd think it'd be worth taking a serious look.

When I can have an all electric pickup that'll tow a loaded 4-place snowmobile trailer 500Mi @ 75MPH @ -20F, they'll have my undivided attention.
 

snow1

★★★★★ Legendary Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2021
Posts
1,875
Likes
16
Points
151
LOL JayKay,I perfer the sound and performance of my 6.2lit v-8,dual pipes....gives me a woodie when she cracks wide open..

I like the little teaser information leaking about the all new 2022 1500 silverado(new generation) dealer's will start odering in january iffin the factories fire-up,big positive is the upgraded 3.0 lit duramax diesel,shit ton more torq/Hp.

GM's hybrids never took off back in the mid 2000's,1500 ecab pickup and taco...about the same time ethnol made it's debut,gotta keep throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks.
 
Last edited:


guywhofishes

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Posts
28,632
Likes
3,840
Points
948
Location
Faaargo, ND
wtf happened to fuel cells

hydrogen burns clean - water and heat makes up the exhaust (maybe tiny bit of lube oil?)

I hear they run hydrogen powered forklifts in Amazon Distribution center in Fargo
 

Shockwave

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Posts
894
Likes
302
Points
248
Location
Bismarck
I don't know if I will ever switch to an electric vehicle. I am like most and enjoy the rumble of a V8. However, I am surprised they haven't come up with a way to self charge these vehicles. You would think they could use the the tires to somehow produce electricity and keep the battery charged. I always think of the radios that have a handle to spin to produce power.
 

snow1

★★★★★ Legendary Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2021
Posts
1,875
Likes
16
Points
151
wtf happened to fuel cells

hydrogen burns clean - water and heat makes up the exhaust (maybe tiny bit of lube oil?)

I hear they run hydrogen powered forklifts in Amazon Distribution center in Fargo

buses in seattle the past few years ran on hydrogen,guessing a spendy process.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know if I will ever switch to an electric vehicle. I am like most and enjoy the rumble of a V8. However, I am surprised they haven't come up with a way to self charge these vehicles. You would think they could use the the tires to somehow produce electricity and keep the battery charged. I always think of the radios that have a handle to spin to produce power.

read above comments ,these EV vehiles do regenerate wlist city driving,it's called regenerative charging,doesn't work on freeway road trips but I sense your point is the next phase for road trips
 

martinslanding

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Posts
2,972
Likes
26
Points
251
Location
eastern half of ND
wtf happened to fuel cells

hydrogen burns clean - water and heat makes up the exhaust (maybe tiny bit of lube oil?)

I hear they run hydrogen powered forklifts in Amazon Distribution center in Fargo

Hydrogen was big push about 15 years ago, Toyota an BMW had a few prototypes pretty expensive at the time, however biggest hurdle was infrastructure for re-fueling, also guessing big oil hampered it I actually drove the 7 series BMW hydrogen powered, at the time the production cost for that vehicle was north of $300k

FB_IMG_1633021347764.jpg FB_IMG_1633021355381.jpg
 
Last edited:

guywhofishes

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Posts
28,632
Likes
3,840
Points
948
Location
Faaargo, ND
hydrogen is produced from water using electrolysis BTW

one promising concept was to produce hydrogen where electricity is made - transfer hydrogen with little or no loss via pipeline (whereas electricity transmission is quite lossy)

concept seemed pretty good just a few years ago
 


espringers

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 18, 2015
Posts
8,173
Likes
880
Points
428
Location
Devils Lake
Btw... the regenerative thing only works when "braking". To move the car AND generate electricity for the same batteries that move the car would violate the laws of physics.
 

lunkerslayer

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Posts
18,956
Likes
2,959
Points
748
Location
Cavalier, ND
Hydrogen was big push about 15 years ago, Toyota an BMW had a few prototypes pretty expensive at the time, however biggest hurdle was infrastructure for re-fueling, also guessing big oil hampered it I actually drove the 7 series BMW hydrogen powered, at the time the production cost for that vehicle was north of $300k

ford.JPG ford.JPG
What kind of milage did a hydrogen car get before it needed to be filled and do you remember the cost to fill
 

martinslanding

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Posts
2,972
Likes
26
Points
251
Location
eastern half of ND
not sure, was in San Antonio for a work conference and this was at the adjacent venue. Wondered over there and they asked me if I wanted to drive a 7 series hydrogen powered BMW….I was like hells ya!
 

Maddog

★★★★★ Legendary Member
Joined
May 6, 2017
Posts
2,564
Likes
905
Points
398
Location
One step closer to the end.
Btw... the regenerative thing only works when "braking". To move the car AND generate electricity for the same batteries that move the car would violate the laws of physics.

there ya go, preaching science ....

- - - Updated - - -

Nikola Tesla actually came up with the theory of world wireless earth. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wor...m was,its atmosphere as electrical conductors.

So yes guywhoknowsJACKshit is correct

corrected it for ya
 


Recent Posts

Friends of NDA

Top Posters of the Month

  • This month: 159
  • This month: 133
  • This month: 116
  • This month: 109
  • This month: 105
  • This month: 87
  • This month: 82
  • This month: 76
  • This month: 75
  • This month: 74
Top Bottom