Water Heaters: Tankless vs Traditional

[bucksnbears]

I put in a new hot water heater in 2020 asked about them and the people I dealt with told me not to do it , they had them but told me I would not be happy

They are gonna tell you whatever makes them the most $:;:thumbsup

 

[Petras]

Sheesh, 9.5 gpm is enough to supply water to roughly 4, maybe 5 showers at a time. Why would a person go with such an upper end water heater?

Why not? I don't ever have to worry about not having enough hot water.... that was my end goal really....

 

[Traxion]

We don't have access to natural gas but we will have propane. Any difference in efficiency between natural gas and propane powered units?

I can't answer that for sure, but most units I have seen are rated at X% efficient with their intended fuel type quite equally. Last comparison I saw propane was winning the overall cost/efficiency battle, but I have no idea where propane is right now. With gas going higher I would say it should still be the winner. We have built homes for lots of customers who are on propane and most all of them prefer propane over natural gas. Good luck.

 

[Pheasant 54]

They are gonna tell you whatever makes them the most $:;:thumbsup

I guess i better have a serious talk with my Dad

 

[johnr]

Family of 4 still in my house, we have I believe a 50gal tank NG heater, never run out unless mrs johnr puts the dishwasher on, the wash machine, and I am the 4th to shower in the AM. It happens about twice a year.

When we replace I will go the next size bigger, however I am just about out of kids, so might not need to.

We do have the water heater in one corner of the house, and I have to run the master bath shower for about 4-5 minutes to finally get the heated water to the other end of the house, not sure anything can be done about that?

 

[Duckslayer100]

They are gonna tell you whatever makes them the most $:;:thumbsup

If that's the case, they probably shot themselves in the foot. Tankless are high ticket items. I'd wager they'd get a lot better kickback on something like that than a standard water heater install...

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We do have the water heater in one corner of the house, and I have to run the master bath shower for about 4-5 minutes to finally get the heated water to the other end of the house, not sure anything can be done about that?

You're thinking of a recirculation pump. Makes it so you basically have on-demand hot water with a standard water heater. I don't think it's a terribly difficult thing to do. I'd call your local reputable plumber for an estimate. We've done a handful, and nobody who has gotten one has regretted it.

 

[johnr]

If that's the case, they probably shot themselves in the foot. Tankless are high ticket items. I'd wager they'd get a lot better kickback on something like that than a standard water heater install...

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You're thinking of a recirculation pump. Makes it so you basically have on-demand hot water with a standard water heater. I don't think it's a terribly difficult thing to do. I'd call your local reputable plumber for an estimate. We've done a handful, and nobody who has gotten one has regretted it.

Something that can be installed without a bunch of extra plumbing and whatnot?

Or is it a huge undertaking requiring a bunch of skilled labor and piles of cash

 

[Duckslayer100]

Something that can be installed without a bunch of extra plumbing and whatnot?

Or is it a huge undertaking requiring a bunch of skilled labor and piles of cash

Every home is different obviously, but I don't think it's a huge ordeal. Just make a couple phone calls and see what folks thing. I think they even are Youtube videos showing how to do it yourself.

 

[espringers]

the way i understand it is you gotta have a way to connect the end of the hot water line(s) to the start. in my house, it would be a serious PITA

 

[guywhofishes]

https://youtu.be/Jd0IsylW4Cc

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They make versions that don't need the dedicated return line. The downside is that your cold water line gets warm/hot too.

For anybody who drinks from the sink that really sucks - unless you run the line a while.

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I'm going to get the dedicated return type installed in coming months.

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(open basement ceiling right now due to remodel)

 

[Maddog]

the way i understand it is you gotta have a way to connect the end of the hot water line(s) to the start. in my house, it would be a serious PITA

Just need to tap into the cold water line right next to the hot water line at your faucet. (If you can live with "hot" water at the cold line for a short amount of time. If you are inclined you can add a thermostat to the power supply to the recirculating pump, then when it gets to a set point the pump automatically shuts off and you know the water is "hot". You can control its (the pump's) starting with a switch.)

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https://youtu.be/Jd0IsylW4Cc

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They make versions that don't need the dedicated return line. The downside is that your cold water line gets warm/hot too.

For anybody who drinks from the sink that really sucks - unless you run the line a while.

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I'm going to get the dedicated return type installed in coming months.

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(open basement ceiling right now due to remodel)

]

;:;banghead Ha ha And then you run the cold "forever" waiting for it to get cold.

@guywhowhasallthegadgets

 

[guywhofishes]

yep - I like cold tap water - dedicated return line all the way for me

luckily my entire house has one hot water leg - the kitchen is 2 light years away from the heater. Cheap bastard who built the house used 1/2 copper too. TAKES FOREVER FOR HOT WATER.

I'm upgrading to 3/4" for both lines, 1/2 for return cuz the pump is so slow

I'm tired of third world water in my $90,000 kitchen.

 

[guywhofishes]

Update: Just installed DIY gravity loop recirculator - no pump. Hot water in seconds at all locations.

#glorious

#soreallover

#worthit

 

[sl1000794]

Never heard of it ... how does it work?

 

[guywhofishes]

Never heard of it ... how does it work?

As hot water cools it gets heavier. A return line back to the water heater cools on the trip back.

I insulated the entire run except for last 10 ft of the return.




I returned with 3/4 to make damn sure it worked.

You must include a swing check valve mounted at about 45 degrees near the water heater return (spring valves are too strong). You have to have a check valve to prevent any cooler water from the bottom of your heater coming back in the return line to your faucet when you open it for hot water. You want the gentle force of the gravity flow to function - but water pressure demand to not backflow.

Also make sure there’s no heat trap fitting on your hot water nipple.

Glad I didn’t buy a pump. I might buy a timer valve to stop the circulation during the night when odds are low we’ll need quick hot water.

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At 45 degrees the swing gate valve is actually hanging open - but slaps shut as soon as you open a hot water spigot.

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It’s gonna take a while to get used to hot water in just 5 seconds at every location, not 90.

 

[risingsun]

That is very interesting. Well done and thanks for the drawing and explanation. Gonna store this one in my memory bank

 

[guywhofishes]

It also works if you return to the cold intake nipple - but the extra 3 feet of elevation drop was too tempting for me not to take advantage of it. I wanted to insure it would work the first time.

 

[Maddog]

@guywhofishes

Do you contract out?
What is your hourly rate?

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It also works if you return to the cold intake nipple - but the extra 3 feet of elevation drop was too tempting for me not to take advantage of it. I wanted to insure it would work the first time.

You are the official water heating expert of NDA. ;:;bowdown ;:;bowdown ;:;bowdown

I bow in homage to you.



For us non-technical shmucks, do they have that check valve at say Home Depot?

 

[guywhofishes]

Hardly!!!

I would contract out but insurance won’t cover me since I’ve no clue what I’m doing.

 

[riverview]

Ill be damned