Abortion?

[LOV2HNT]

Lots of good points and discussion on this thread. I'm against abortion as well. Coming from someone who went through hell and back in the fertility world just to get the son I have, reading/seeing these women abort their child because they aren't ready for a child or can't afford them...insert a slew of other reasons, is absurd. There is literally thousands and thousands of parents out there either waiting or wanting to adopt a baby. No reason to kill them. If a women is not ready to have a child then keep your damn legs closed or take the proper precautions to avoid getting pregnant. If they can't do either and end up pregnant...well can't fix stupid, but our society has done a great job of rewarding stupidity. The list of reasons to have an abortion is very short.

 

[wjschmaltz]

I've seen a lot of stories of people where their mom questioned having an abortion and didn't and the baby goes on to have a world-changing life. Or just a happy and grateful life for that matter. I've still never seen a story where someone is saying "my mom was going to have an abortion and didn't; damn her!"

Maybe we need to poll the 50% of black people in New York City under the age of 40 that weren't killed before leaving the womb if they would've rather been aborted like the 50% of their peers were.

I have real convictions on this subject and told myself I wouldn't participate in this thread, but "silence is violence" I guess! If there is one place I support my tax dollars going it's to helping kids in bad situations and the proof for that is in my after-tax donations.

 

[JayKay]

Since many are making this a religious point, question for you. Does this issue affect your ability to practice your religion? Does it prevent you from attaining your spiritual goal of getting to heaven? Abortion is a very difficult decision. There are factors such as rape, financial, life circumstances, adoption is preferable but it is not always a viable option for some women. Abortion was illegal before, it did not stop them from happening. People with money and power got medical abortions those without got them any way they could.

I think some people get morality mixed up with religion. And to some, they can be the same thing. I think that many, maybe most, maybe all morals could be traced to religion. And of course, all religions aren't the same.

I see your point too. If something is illegal, then is it automatically immoral, or against religion? Or, if something IS legal, is it automatically okay? I get it.

To me, I think an abortion is against God's teaching. But we are all sinners. The way (that I've been taught) to forgiveness is admitting and repenting. Somewhere in the Bible, Jesus said "Go and sin no more". Sins are forgivable by God. It even says that He'll go further, in forgetting the sin.

I think making abortion illegal doesn't solve the problem, you're right. But for some women, it's a way of life. It's an easy way out of a predicament. And lamentably, that predicament is repeated again and again. That certainly doesn't sound like repentance to me.

But what do I know? I can't even catch a walleye lately.

 

[espringers]

i am gonna start w/ roe v. wade...

i've never been comfortable with that decision from a legal standpoint. seems the supreme court majority had a result in mind "for the good of society" and reasoned their way to said result. they do it quite often to be honest. there are all kinds of things we can't do with our own bodies. some of those things harm absolutely nobody. they are still illegal. and they certainly aren't protected by the constitution. so, how the fuck they made abortion a constitutionally protected activity is beyond me. in that respect, i have to agree with what little i have heard about this "draft".

generally speaking, i am against abortion. however, i disagree that an "embryo" is necessarily a "life" deserving of legal protection. think embryonic in the terms of infertility treatments or possibly embryonic selection for a couple that are genetic dynamite. you take sperm and you fertilize an egg... often times outside the uterus. you culture that fertilized egg in a dish. at 3 days, a well graded embryo is only 8 cells. then you freeze em. often times freeze many of them. to be used in IVF. folks use IVF for a variety of reasons. are those frozen globs of cells in a dish in a freezer worthy of the same protections as a fetus with a heart beat? my opinion? no. some scoff at "playing god" in this way. but, i am not so sure god would judge two loving parents who desperately want a baby and are going to do their best to give him/her a great life in this shit hole of a world vary harshly.

i am also "ok" with it in certain extreme circumstances. here is one example on the extreme end of things and it was on TV last night. mom is carrying a baby. first ultrasound. call it 12 weeks? reveals little to no brain matter, hole in the skull and a massive hole in the heart. this fetus has zero chance of survival outside the womb. likely not making it to term. if so, likely still born. but, to make it worse, the exposed brain matter is making her amnio fluid septic and her life is in a lot of danger. this one doesn't require a lot of thought for me. i would never be able to look mom in the eyes and tell her... "god's will. good luck with this one."

where do you draw the line on what is "extreme" circumstances? how do you define mom's life being "in danger"? so, many areas on this that aren't black and white for me. so, its hard for me to draw a black and white line and this gets a bit philosophical. i definitely have a line in the sand though as do many. so, no need to get into that. not productive.

 

[Twitch]

If you have those discussions of “extreme circumstances” with a huge portion of the pro-choice crowd and say if I make concessions for those and then we outlaw all the rest of the abortions and make that the line in the sand a bunch of them if not most will say well no that’s not ok. Well my answer to that is stop using the “extreme circumstances” as a red herring and just come on out and say you don’t agree with accountability for one’s actions because that’s what it boils down to most of the time. Then those same my body my choice folk will tell you covid vaccines for all. Not much middle ground with someone like that

 

[espringers]

[MENTION=668]Twitch[/MENTION], what would you propose the mother in the "extreme" circumstance i listed above do? this isn't a situation where we are looking for "accountability" for her actions. she got pregnant on purpose and wanted a baby. the fetus she was carrying was literally quite likely to kill her. not arguing. but, would like your opinion since it sounds like there is no wiggle room on this issue for you.

and if you are willing to... share your feelings on IVF?

 

[Twitch]

I don’t have all the answers and didn’t mean to come off as in there’s no wiggle room. What I meant by my above comment is there is a big portion of the “my body my choice” crowd who will use the “extreme circumstances” as a means of sounding compassionate when in reality they don’t care about those circumstances at all. They scream “what about rape?” or the like as a means to soften their stance when really they are just looking for abortion laws like Virginia or Colorado.

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When dealing with IVF for infertility treatments I would tend to agree that God probably isn’t going to judge a couple who want to be parents and give a baby a great life in this all to often ugly world to harshly.

 

[shorthairsrus]

Another going to be 50 page thread on more politics --- come on move it to the political area of the page. The ice is melting lets see some open water topics.

 

[Allen]

I read an article yesterday that talked about Ginsburg's philosophy on Roe. She, in general, seemed to like the protection of abortion, but thought the court did it on the wrong basis. I'm paraphrasing here, but she thought it should fall under the equal protection standard. In particular, wealthy white people could always travel to an abortion friendly state in order to obtain one if it was illegal in their home state, but poor people who lived in a pro-life state would not be able to do so, hence why she thought this needed to be federally protected vs state decided.

I am not a fan of abortion, but I also don't think it's my place to get involved with other's decisions on something so very personal.

There's a very interesting passage in the book Freakonomics about the net effect abortion has had on several things in this country, including the apparent drop in crime after Roe became law.

 

[Dirty]

She didn’t mention anything about poor white people or wealthy black people by chance did she?

Nah, didn’t think so. Carry on.

 

[Allen]

She didn’t mention anything about poor white people or wealthy black people by chance did she?

Nah, didn’t think so. Carry on.

Nope. I never said I was a fan of RBG's political tendencies, I just thought it interesting in how she disagreed with the reasoning the court came up with Roe vs. Wade's ruling even though she probably liked the net effect.

 

[Sum1]

The leak was just a ploy to work towards midterms. The dems are losing control throughout the country. So now they leak this out to try to sway the vote back in their favor come midterms.

This here. It’s a smoke screen for something. When the left starts rioting there is always a smoke screen or an agenda. Funny how as soon as a libtard gets in office the riots resume. Hopefully a couple thousand Kyle Rittenhouses also take to the streets. Law enforcement is about as worthless as tits on a bore during these riots. Really starting to question who’s side they are on.

 

[lunkerslayer]

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This is the absolute state of the liberal mind

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So my sister is a nurse, when she did her boards and worked in the hospital she was involved in a few incidents of females coming in for an allegent rape. She said that the woman were after they administered the rape kit, were given the morning after pill to take care of an unwanted pregnancy. Also there has never been one instance of a woman dieing becuase of a complication during a pregnancy not one that is a fact. No women want to be whores that is the truth, they don't want to have to take responsibility for their promiscuous ways.
Just to be clear on the female victims nothing confidential was shared she only was referring to the morning after pill that was administered, so an abortion would not be needed if this involvement of unprotected sex had occurred.


And of course I am a man and as a man I have no say in any decisions that pretain to a female so my arguments are only based on my upbringing and the moral duty that we have as children of God.

 

[sl1000794]

This is the absolute state of the liberal mind.[/QUOTE]

What has taken you so long to correct her decision!!!

 

[lunkerslayer]

i am gonna start w/ roe v. wade...

i've never been comfortable with that decision from a legal standpoint. seems the supreme court majority had a result in mind "for the good of society" and reasoned their way to said result. they do it quite often to be honest. there are all kinds of things we can't do with our own bodies. some of those things harm absolutely nobody. they are still illegal. and they certainly aren't protected by the constitution. so, how the fuck they made abortion a constitutionally protected activity is beyond me. in that respect, i have to agree with what little i have heard about this "draft".

generally speaking, i am against abortion. however, i disagree that an "embryo" is necessarily a "life" deserving of legal protection. think embryonic in the terms of infertility treatments or possibly embryonic selection for a couple that are genetic dynamite. you take sperm and you fertilize an egg... often times outside the uterus. you culture that fertilized egg in a dish. at 3 days, a well graded embryo is only 8 cells. then you freeze em. often times freeze many of them. to be used in IVF. folks use IVF for a variety of reasons. are those frozen globs of cells in a dish in a freezer worthy of the same protections as a fetus with a heart beat? my opinion? no. some scoff at "playing god" in this way. but, i am not so sure god would judge two loving parents who desperately want a baby and are going to do their best to give him/her a great life in this shit hole of a world vary harshly.

i am also "ok" with it in certain extreme circumstances. here is one example on the extreme end of things and it was on TV last night. mom is carrying a baby. first ultrasound. call it 12 weeks? reveals little to no brain matter, hole in the skull and a massive hole in the heart. this fetus has zero chance of survival outside the womb. likely not making it to term. if so, likely still born. but, to make it worse, the exposed brain matter is making her amnio fluid septic and her life is in a lot of danger. this one doesn't require a lot of thought for me. i would never be able to look mom in the eyes and tell her... "god's will. good luck with this one."

where do you draw the line on what is "extreme" circumstances? how do you define mom's life being "in danger"? so, many areas on this that aren't black and white for me. so, its hard for me to draw a black and white line and this gets a bit philosophical. i definitely have a line in the sand though as do many. so, no need to get into that. not productive.

Can you share your source on the one with the baby with a hole in its head please

 

[Ruttin]

This here. It’s a smoke screen for something. When the left starts rioting there is always a smoke screen or an agenda. Funny how as soon as a libtard gets in office the riots resume. Hopefully a couple thousand Kyle Rittenhouses also take to the streets. Law enforcement is about as worthless as tits on a bore during these riots. Really starting to question who’s side they are on.

I agree. What trial begins on May 16th? Sussman ring a bell...

 

[Sluggo]

This issue rubs me raw,why do folks/government intervene in our lives? this issue is a personal choice for individuals,someone stated the morning after pill,or the 30 day pill,abortions before 6 weeks,before a heart beat as medical ppl claim is not up for discussion,it's an individual decision or should be,more gonernment over reach if this passes IMPO protests already underway we'll see how this plays out.I'm glad I'm shooting blanks these days,no worries.

I'm sure I am not saying anything that you don't already know, but what makes abortion different than say getting a shot or deciding whether or not to have wart removed from your body is that it involves another human life. The "choice" is whether one should get pregnant or not....after that it's killing a baby.

 

[shorthairsrus]

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I knew it wouldnt take long for Lunk to join the party.

 

[Allen]

Also there has never been one instance of a woman dieing becuase of a complication during a pregnancy not one that is a fact./QUOTE]


Is there a typo in there?

 

[lunkerslayer]

Also there has never been one instance of a woman dieing becuase of a complication during a pregnancy not one that is a fact./QUOTE]


Is there a typo in there?

In the context of the paragraph with it pertaining to the subject of an abortion, but maybe with the exception of the subject of a baby that developed with a hole in its head. The jury is still out on that one until espringers can provide us with a source on this anomaly.