Outside hydrant

[Yoby]

Its been a long time since I have posted, mainly because I have been moving around.

I have a dilemma that I haven't been able to solve completely. I have a water leak. last summer I hit the roof when they told me I used 50K+ gallons in a month for June and July. Fixed a couple leaks (toilet and outside faucet) and it dropped down to normal.

Starting in Feb, I was starting to use 2 gal per hour for no reason (I only just looked at this data), now I'm using 250 gal per hour. It has been a linear increase since Feb. I had set a leak notification up with the water company last summer if I exceeded 150 gallons an hour. Stupid me (x many times) this was on average over 24 hrs and the notifications were emails and they all went to my junk mail.

Fast forward to today, I received my bill and it indicates last month I used 81K gallons last month. I have since figured out I'm loosing 60 gal per 15 min someplace outside. I have 3 freezeproof hydrants, and 2 places for cattle to get water and 1 blocked off water source. I shut all those off and my water meter stops turning over. I checked the yard no soft spots, no muddy spots, nothing that I can tell that water is outside. 2 of the freezeproof hydrants are inside external buildings and from my hours of research, it doesn't appear that they fail in a way that the water would be spraying out the weep holes.

I'm at a loose, unless I just start digging up my yard, driveways, ect just to hope to find a leak someplace. Any ideas on how to pin point a leak?

Thanks Yoby

 

[Davy Crockett]

Not sure how your system is plumbed in but can you shut off the hydrants independently of are they both on the same line ? Or, do you have a way to choke down your main line to a few GPM and then measure the GPM output at your hydrants to see if one is leaking at the input fitting ? Unless you have sandy soil below 8-9 feet you should see a wet spot with that much leakage. There should at least be a green spot in the grass above the leak as dry as it is. Good Luck . A huge geothermal wellfield had a leak in Utah where the top 20' was solid gravel and cobblers , the contractor hooked it up to the fire hydrant and said the leak will show up by morning and he was right, there was a big wet spot above the leak.

 

[Yoby]

This is my basic layout (its been a while since I used paint). black is the outline of buildings, yes is cattle fence, red are where I know I have water available above ground. I talked to the old man who built the out buildings and the blue is where he thinks he put the waterlines.

 

[Davy Crockett]

Where are the shutoff valves ? Either way you should be able to choke down the main line to a few GPM and measure GPM at each of hydrants and at least find out which circuit is leaking.

 

[Yoby]

there is 1 shutoff where the blue line starts

 

[Davy Crockett]

there is 1 shutoff where the blue line starts

That makes things tough.

 

[Davy Crockett]

Try putting your ear against the metal pipe on the hydrant and listen for a noise that would indicate a leak , or a screwdriver against it with the handle against your ear .

 

[Davy Crockett]

 

[Colt45]

just an idea, put another shut off valve in front of your existing shut off valve, and use air pressure to try and figure it out. Not sure what you water pressure is but 30 to 40 lbs air should be enough, and take PSI measurements at your spickets
Air way cheaper than water, but just an idea.
Good luck, I hope you figure it out

 

[Davy Crockett]

just an idea, put another shut off valve in front of your existing shut off valve, and use air pressure to try and figure it out. Not sure what you water pressure is but 30 to 40 lbs air should be enough, and take PSI measurements at your spickets
Air way cheaper than water, but just an idea.
Good luck, I hope you figure it out

Good idea, The air bubbles will for sure make noise follow the pipe to surface so you can't hear it.

 

[Davy Crockett]

That's if the leak is at the hydrant , I'd be surprised if it was in the middle of the water line anyplace if it is 160PSI pipe.

 

[NDSportsman]

My guess would be at one of those Y locations where the line splits but leaking that much you should notice it at the surface. That's a lot of water!

 

[jake57]

I had this happen to me. Hydrant was only about 6 years old. went through all the work of digging it up to find out it had lost it's adjustment at the handle to fully shut off the water and it was blasting out of the weep hole for months. I did replace the hydrant but could have been fixed by adjusting

 

[Allen]

A leak of 250 gallons per hour shouldn't be difficult to find unless you live on a pile of gravel.

You already have shutoff valves, they're called faucets, waterers, etc. I would assume they all use the same size supply line. If you can't find a wet spot in the yard, I would start by open ending each water supply line by removing the faucet, etc so you have unrestricted flow and measure the flow with a five gallon bucket. The line that takes the longest to fill the bucket is the one that's most likely leaking.

Also, I don't know who you are using for a water supply, but I am guessing it's a rural water system. If that's the case, you should talk to them about the cattle watering. I think many/most/some of them have discounted rates for water supply to livestock.

 

[Allen]

Also, since you have water running from the start of the blue line to the rest of the system. If your system is leak free, shut that valve and walk slowly to one of the faucets. So long as the system's integrity is intact, the line should still be pressurized, even though it will bleed off quickly once you open the faucet.

Since we don't know where your meter is located, it's possible the meter is in a pit away from your home and the leak is upstream of your home.

Good luck!

 

[Retired-Guy]

Underground leak detection using compressed air:

 

[Obi-Wan]

Not sure if this has been asked/answered but has the actual meter been tested for accuracy or replaced?

 

[Retired-Guy]

Underground leak detection using compressed air:

Sorry! I should have watched the video first since it was a total fail but maybe in your case it would be of some value.

 

[Yoby]

I agree there should be a very obvious spot in the yard, but there isnt. 81k gal is almost enough to fill a 30x40 10ft deep pool. I walked around this morning with an electric fence grounding post all along the lines that I drew. no soft spots.

I checked the meter inside the house at 3 am. When I shut off the outside water the meter stops climbing. There is a possibility that there is a gravel pit under me some place. there are 2 gravel mining pits within a mile of me (1 N, 1 S).

this is an old property, with 3 old wells that used to be hand pumps, 2 converted to use electric motors. the 3rd was covered. There are also 2 cisterns. 1 collects water off the roof but no where close to the the water lines. The other would be filled with water from 1 of the wells. That cistern used to be the water supply to the house, but has been disconnected and we now have rural water.

After thinking about this, I drew out the wells and my current theory is that the water is leaking from one of the hydrants up the middle. If the water is leaking it might find its way into the well and flow down? and thats why I dont see surface water?

 

[Yoby]

I'm going to try and do an air test. I might be able to hear the water from the tops of the wells