Might be last year for ND moose hunting

[dean nelson]

Well looks like the feds are looking at declaring moose in this area as an endangered species! I wouldn't blow this off either because although our heard is doing okay the other states are not and it's down right abysmal in MN! Be interesting to see what they do here with this since our heard on the west side is doing great while the east side of the state is dying off.

http://m.bismarcktribune.com/mobile/article_294324e2-4b86-5c81-a489-c8d7c7d9021c.html

 

[Mr Nice]

Want to help the moose population, let us hunt wolves!

 

[Brian Renville]

Wow I didn't know there was a decline. Born and raised in western ND and i've seen more moose in the past 3 years than all the 32 before that.

 

[zoops]

There's not a decline in western ND. I'm not sure they've offered more tags in quite a while. MN's herd is more or less dying out.

 

[Rizzo]

Came across these two "endangered" youngsters this morning on normandy and 43rd.

These groups are claiming climate and disease are the problem and go hand in hand with little impact from wolves. The moose are doing just fine here and the one thing missing from the equation is an established wolf population.

 

[johnr]

Thanks obama

 

[ejolliffe]

i just got my tag out of the mail today! The feds need a reality check, as does the fish and game. Living in Minot and working dear Stanley, New Town, and Ray, I see moose weekly. While deer hunting last year I saw more moose than deer most days (no kidding).

 

[dean nelson]

Came across these two "endangered" youngsters this morning on normandy and 43rd.

These groups are claiming climate and disease are the problem and go hand in hand with little impact from wolves. The moose are doing just fine here and the one thing missing from the equation is an established wolf population.

Unfortunately that doesn't prove to be completely accurate. Moose in all the north east units are dieing out and wolves are not why. The moose have a pretty well set pattern in ND at this point with rapid number growth in new areas as they spread west and south followed by a slow but steady decline. It used to be that M8 was the best unit then it was M9 now it's M10 and the two spots in the state with the best habitat for them have had to be closed due to numbers dropping to low. I wish we had a stable heard state wide so we could point to it and say we are different then those other states but unfortunately we have the same problem.

 

[Wildyote]

Moose mortality in MN and Michigan has been caused wolves(33%), brainworm(33%), and bacteria(25%) and rest from other causes. Eastern ND has experienced brain worm also. There are still moose there and get outside Turtle Mountains and Pembina Hills there are healthy moose populations the central and northern half of ND. The biggest problem the in western ND is oilfield trash poaching them and traffic fatalities. The will not put them on the endangered species list here.

 

[Davey Crockett]

Haven't saw a moose in my neck of the Turtle Mountains for years.

 

[Migrator Man]

They say bacteria and brainwork are the big killers in MN. They say that since the climate is warmer that moose are infected at a higher rate. I have not seen much of a difference in seasonal temps with the exception of last winter. So does the western part of the state get colder or just not have those illnesses yet?

 

[dean nelson]

They say bacteria and brainwork are the big killers in MN. They say that since the climate is warmer that moose are infected at a higher rate. I have not seen much of a difference in seasonal temps with the exception of last winter. So does the western part of the state get colder or just not have those illnesses yet?

That's always been the rub on the whole thing is they are doing best where it's definitely warmer. Must be something about a build up of the liver flukes or whatever it is. As for warming, ND leads the way with something like a 4 degree rise in the last hundred years or whatever it was they used. The thing about this that is nothing short of retarded is that and arbitrary man made line can somehow denote a group of endangered anamals from a group of the same damn animals that are nowhere in the vicinity of endangered I.E. the moose in MB and SK.

 

[Lou63]

game warden put one down about 10 years ago out in either western Renville Co. or eastern Burke Co. so its out here, wondering that since our deer numbers are lower out here the moose have less chance at infection

 

[NDSportsman]

They say bacteria and brainwork are the big killers in MN. They say that since the climate is warmer that moose are infected at a higher rate. I have not seen much of a difference in seasonal temps with the exception of last winter. So does the western part of the state get colder or just not have those illnesses yet?

I agree and I think the big cause is ticks. Look at the areas they are declining, wooded areas that are tick havens. Now look at the areas they are thriving in, open prairie that harbors few ticks. I'm not an expert but I did stay at a holiday inn one night.

 

[Fly Carpin]

The Center for Biological Diversity makes their money by petitioning the FWS to list species and critical habitat, and then suing them when they either don't list or try to delist. They are absolutely bastardizing the original intent of the act, which was to bring numbers back up, delist, move on. They are not scientists. they are not conservationists. They are greasy ambulance chasers. The problem is that if they have "substantial" scientific or commercial evidence for why a species should be listed, the feds don't have a choice. They have to do a year-long status review of the species.

In 2006 they petitioned to have the leopard frog listed in 18 western states, including North Dakota. The feds had to consider it. In 2011 they determined it did not warrant listing. Think about that. Someone woke up, went to work, and tried to determine if leopard frogs should be afforded protection under ESA in North Dakota. For 5 years. Because they were legally bound to do so.

So what will they find at the end of their year-long "rigorous" study of moose? Brainworm, winter ticks, heat stress, liver flukes, and wolves are all working together to drive down moose numbers in traditional moose habitat. Moose in ND are moving into the prairies and flourishing. But how to combat the climate related decline? Anyone who thinks they can use the ESA to regulate greenhouse gas emissions is a fool.

Sorry for the rant. Anything involving the Center for Biological Diversity sends me into a rage. They give real wildlife professionals a bad name. I'm going fishing. Later buds

 

[gst]

Some on here have been warning groups like this with their agendas do not have the interests of sportsmen or hunting at heart. Sorry, no pictures.

"Listing the moose under the act would make it illegal to hunt them and could produce habitat protections and federally funded research on their plight."

I typed in the Center for Biological Diversity to get to their site to find a story about some of the BS that fly carpin was speaking of and this was at the top of their home page.

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/programs/public_lands/protect_public_lands/index.html

Seems like maybe someone is taking notes from them here on a few outdoor sites.............

Anyways here is a bit more info about them. Note the "foundation" revenue sources.

http://www.undueinfluence.com/Center_for_Biological_Diversity.htm

"Self-description: As the country's leading endangered species advocates, the Center for Biological Diversity works through science, law, and creative media to secure a future for all species, great or small, hovering on the brink of extinction.Actual: Anti-industry legal attack group uses the Endangered Species Act and media scare tactics as a weapon to destroy America's industrial strength and resource production by bringing lawsuits against a wide spectrum of resource use companies, private property owners and against government to stop resource use. The Center for Biological Diversity lost a 2005 defamation lawsuit to fifth-generation rancher Jim Chilton of Arivaca, Arizona, when a jury awarded him $600,000, including $500,000 in punitive damages for falsely accusing him of damaging the range. The Center appealed the decision to the Arizona State Supreme Court and lost again in 2007.

In the following link, note the mention of securing 'critical habitat.' Once a designation has been made lands are "critical habitat" even if they are YOUR private lands, the Federal govt USF&WS now has control over what you can or can not do on them.

http://www.hcn.org/issues/41.22/firebrand-ways

"Twenty years ago, they were Earth Firsters, living in tepees, trying to save spotted owls and grafting together a shoestring budget from their unemployment checks. Today, the Center for Biological Diversity has a budget of $7 million, 62 full-time staffers and 15 offices nationally, in locations from Washington, D.C., to Silver City, N.M. By filing 600 lawsuits and countless petitions against the federal government, the center has won the listing of 380 species as threatened or endangered. It also says it has secured 110 million acres of critical habitat and proposed another 130 million acres. CBD has won a reputation as the country's most militant large environmental group, one that seldom shrinks from controversy."


Yet a few ranchers are labeled "domestic terrorists"................
- - - Updated - - -
A bit on "critical habitat"

http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/new-critical-habitat-regulations-56779

"On February 11, 2016, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s National Marine Fisheries Service jointly published final regulations and a final policy addressing critical habitat under the Endangered Species Act. The final rules and policy will broadly impact all aspects of ESA implementation, including jeopardy findings and the development of species conservation plans. Ultimately, private activities will be subject to increased scrutiny by federal agencies, and obtaining permits and other approvals will be more costly and time-consuming.Impacts of the final rules and policy are likely to include the following:

• Critical habitat designations are likely to be more frequent, more robust, and broader in geographic scope, including areas that listed species may have periodically used in the past or may potentially use in the future.
• An increase in critical habitat designations means an increased likelihood that development activities will occur in or near designated critical habitat—and therefore be subject to ESA restrictions.
• The expanded definition of “destruction or adverse modification” of critical habitat includes not only the alteration of the physical or biological features essential to the conservation of a species, but also alterations that delay the development of those features, even if the features do not yet exist in the area designated as critical habitat. Consequently, activities occurring in designated areas are more susceptible to a finding of destruction or adverse modification of critical habitat, which may trigger severe ESA restrictions."

- - - Updated - - -

Here in ND as a result of a ;lawsuit filed by the Center for Biological diversity there were meetings held to share the forced listing of two butterfly species as endangered.

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2014/prairie-butterflies-10-23-2014.html

“It’s great news that these remarkable little butterflies now have the Endangered Species Act protection that will save them and their beautiful prairie homes,” said Tierra Curry, a senior scientist at the Center.

Lands here in ND were to be listed as "critical habitat". Grazing was still going to be allowed on these PRIVATE lands, but if it was documented that your cattle were the cause of a "taking" of one of these butterflies you could be fined and possibly imprisoned.

Oh those lawsuits they file, tax payers pay for them. Funny how some here never mention these groups having their "hands ion the tax payers pockets".

http://www.pinedaleonline.com/news/2009/09/Environmentallitigat.htm

"• Between 2000 and 2009, Center for Biological Diversity ("CBD") filed at least 409 lawsuits in the federal district courts and at least 165 appeals in the federal appellate courts. "

"On the other end, these same environmental groups are receiving billions of federal tax payer dollars in attorney fees for settling or "winning" cases against the federal government. Accurate statistics have not been kept by the Justice Department or the federal agencies, thus there is no accounting for the total amount of tax dollars paid, however, we were able to uncover these facts:

There are two major sources for attorney fees that can be paid to plaintiffs that "prevail" in litigation either by winning a case on the merits or by the Justice Department agreeing that the group "prevailed" in a settlement by achieving the purpose of the litigation. One source of funding is called the "Judgment Fund." The Judgment Fund is a Congressional line-item appropriation and is used for Endangered Species Act cases, Clean Water Act cases, and with other statutes that directly allow a plaintiff to recover attorney fees. There is no central data base for tracking the payment of these fees, thus neither the taxpayers, members of Congress nor the federal government knows the total amount of taxpayer dollars spent from the Judgment Fund on individual cases. The only information regarding these fees that is available is: "

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Fly Carpin said,

Anything involving the Center for Biological Diversity sends me into a rage.

Check out their staff. Everyone has a law degree or non-profit training. The fourth one is from North Dakota. Donald Trump is fond of saying the USA doesn't make anything anymore, What tangible items do these people make?

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/about/staff/

 

[KDM]

Well as far as I can tell, the moose population is doing just fine south of Williston. While on mission this week I saw 3 different cows with twin calves each and 2 bulls in about a 2500 acre area. I saw the same number of moose each day from Tuesday till this morning while flying about 100 feet off the ground. Without any REAL surveillance data for moose in ND, I seriously question the credibility that there is a moose population decline in this state.

 

[SDMF]

One would think ND G&F could have a mutually beneficial relationship with the UAV's in Grand Forks. The UAV drivers need time and something to look for, they could grid the whole state and tell us how many deer, moose, elk, bighorn sheep, wolves, bears, wolverines, and mountain lions we've got scurrying about.

 

[PrairieGhost]

The Center for Biological Diversity makes their money by petitioning the FWS to list species and critical habitat, and then suing them when they either don't list or try to delist. They are absolutely bastardizing the original intent of the act, which was to bring numbers back up, delist, move on. They are not scientists. they are not conservationists. They are greasy ambulance chasers. The problem is that if they have "substantial" scientific or commercial evidence for why a species should be listed, the feds don't have a choice. They have to do a year-long status review of the species.

In 2006 they petitioned to have the leopard frog listed in 18 western states, including North Dakota. The feds had to consider it. In 2011 they determined it did not warrant listing. Think about that. Someone woke up, went to work, and tried to determine if leopard frogs should be afforded protection under ESA in North Dakota. For 5 years. Because they were legally bound to do so.

So what will they find at the end of their year-long "rigorous" study of moose? Brainworm, winter ticks, heat stress, liver flukes, and wolves are all working together to drive down moose numbers in traditional moose habitat. Moose in ND are moving into the prairies and flourishing. But how to combat the climate related decline? Anyone who thinks they can use the ESA to regulate greenhouse gas emissions is a fool.

Sorry for the rant. Anything involving the Center for Biological Diversity sends me into a rage. They give real wildlife professionals a bad name. I'm going fishing. Later buds

I agree completely. Perhaps the only thing they do worth while is offset the radicals on the other side of the spectrum. Shafted from the left and shafted from the right. One can only hope they leave us alone while fighting with each other. Perhaps that's to much to ask for.

I propose a political duel to the death for both sides. Then we politically emasculate the survivor. Hang a Hillary and Obama photo around their neck as the mark of Kane.