top soil erosion?

Fisherman25

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Back in the dirty thirties, along with several other droughts, even native prairie ground eroded. No till is not going to stop, or even reduce wind erosion WHEN we get another severe drought. The thing about history is, it tends to repeat itself. I'm not saying tree rows are the sole answer, but I'm not buying the no till thing for a cure all. It's works for short droughts or mild drought. That's my two cents....
 


gst

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Nice try gst but as you said no-till/min-till practices haven't been around long enough. The fact is there have been 2+ year droughts in our past and there will be again, to think otherwise is kind of foolish. Will todays practices help, certainly in the short term but none of us know about long term. It simply hasn't happened, yet.

And I think every tax payer has "skin in the game" whether you like it or not. I would much rather see my tax dollars going towards something that benefits every one of us like clean water, air and reasonable food prices then being given to some who like to work the system.

Whether or not you are willing to admit it there are indeed people out there who work the system. Who want the $ now and don't really care what happens 5, 10, 50 years from now.


If you have ever followed anything I have said, I readily admit there are those that "work the system", and that I don;t think much of the "system". But I don;t know what "system" you are talking about when it comes to removing tree rows.

Can you share the years that ND has seen a state drought that has prevented any crops from growing as was implied?
Perhaps there is, I have only been farming 36 years and my family for 92 years so perhaps there has been.

I have seen two years out of the last 4 that a crop has not been seeded due to excessive moisture.

We know that DL has overflowed down the Tolna coulee several times from excessive moisture long before man impacted the land.

What we do know is as long as no till HAS been around, it HAS prevented soil erosion. What we do know is it DOES improve soil tilth and moisture retention significantly.

If you can predict the future well enough to accurately predict the next drought that will prevent any crops from growing for two years so I can plan and manage accordingly please let me know, you would be a wealthy man.

The simple fact is history shows droughts that severe do NOT happen that often in the northern plains. Does it mean they will not..of course not. But when you wish to tell people they do not know what they are doing in managing their business, it helps if you have some experience yourself in managing that business yourself.

I like to buy and wear comfy shoes............that does not mean I know enough to tell the shoe store owner how to run his business.

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Here is the deal guys if we do get a drought severe enough to keep any crops from growing tree rows will not STOP soil erosion. They will stop the soil as it is blowing if the wind blows it cross ways to them but they will not STOP soil erosion.

North/south tree rows will not stop erosion when the wind is from the north or the south, likewise east west.

The only way to prevent soil erosion in those cases is to surround the quarter with tree rows and then place them every 40 rods minimum. We farm a couple quarters that are exactly like that. THOSE two quarters have been by far the wettest quarters that we have NOT been able to farm two out of the last 4 years BECAUSE OF THE TREES and the snow they stop. There are pretty large parts of the fields that are in most years dry enough to seed, but are difficult if not impossible to get to because of moisture that prevents us from getting to those areas.

You just are not going to see that happen with todays large equipment.

Like I said, I like tree rows. We have planted several miles of them even though they take an incredible amount of work to get started and maintain.

But farming HAS changed whether people like it or not.
 

raider

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Nice try gst but as you said no-till/min-till practices haven't been around long enough. The fact is there have been 2+ year droughts in our past and there will be again, to think otherwise is kind of foolish. Will todays practices help, certainly in the short term but none of us know about long term. It simply hasn't happened, yet.

And I think every tax payer has "skin in the game" whether you like it or not. I would much rather see my tax dollars going towards something that benefits every one of us like clean water, air and reasonable food prices then being given to some who like to work the system.

Whether or not you are willing to admit it there are indeed people out there who work the system. Who want the $ now and don't really care what happens 5, 10, 50 years from now.



kinda like pretty much ALL americans who pay as little income tax as allowed by law??? we didn't get close to 20 trillion by everyone taking one for the team and overpaying in april...

don't throw farmers under the bus for doing what 99% of all other american businesses do to drive the market and stuff your 401k...
 

gr8outdoors

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The guys in our area that work their fields in the fall blow all year. When it starts to warm up and dry out the little snow left turns completely black with their top soil. Guess I don't get it, but hey, we'll take their top soil blowing into our no tilled fields if they don't want it!

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Forgot to mention. We do farm around tree rows. The only ones we remove are the ones that are blown over into the field. And this year we are planting about 700 more trees, granted they are not in the field, but planting some none the less.
 

huffranger

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Is this considered top soil erosion ????

image.jpg

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Little too much warm weather too fast on the north slope of Alaska.
 


johnr

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seems the wind in western ND is a constant 20+, I have 6 trees in my yard, I am doing my part.

so put that in your pipe and smoke it.
 

Deerwatcher

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We've been 100% no till since 2000 there's a lot of benefits, we use less fertilizer, less chemical, there's really no visible rocks, no erosion from heavy rains or high winds, and when the neighbor's crops are burning up in August ours are still dark green. And one of my favorites is the wildlife love it, everything that the combine drops doesn't get dug under.We plant in the spring spray then combine in the fall nothing in between

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Also we have 1 quarter that was crp but the only way to re enroll it into crp was to tear out all the trees. We didn't want to do that so it's now shitty crop land that is pure hell trying to seed around all the tree rows and sloughs outta 160 acres we got 75 planted this year. There is also a neighbor that couldn't get his re enrolled he applied twice and was rejected and another neighbor that was denied the first time on there crp PLOTS because there was 2 one acre corn food plot. So before you bash farmers for being so greedy take a look at out f'd government
 

Davey Crockett

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Does No till work equally as well with heavy ground as it does sandy ground ? I have CRP coming out next fall and I am wondering if no till will work on heavy gumbo? I'm in the Turtle Mountains and our spring window opens two weeks later at the minimum and the temps are cooler so things stay pretty wet and it's either pack it or wait most years out into June and then gamble with rain season. Of the fields that I drive past up here none are no tilled.
 


eyexer

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when soil blows to the next county it's replaced with soil from the county in the opposite direction. that damn hole in the ozone. mmm wait that's gone too. damn global warming....mmm...didn't emulate with enough people so it's now climate change.....damn, the climate has been changing since the earth was created.....wonder what's next.
 

lunkerslayer

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Where are u from?
We've been 100% no till since 2000 there's a lot of benefits, we use less fertilizer, less chemical, there's really no visible rocks, no erosion from heavy rains or high winds, and when the neighbor's crops are burning up in August ours are still dark green. And one of my favorites is the wildlife love it, everything that the combine drops doesn't get dug under.We plant in the spring spray then combine in the fall nothing in between

- - - Updated - - -

Also we have 1 quarter that was crp but the only way to re enroll it into crp was to tear out all the trees. We didn't want to do that so it's now shitty crop land that is pure hell trying to seed around all the tree rows and sloughs outta 160 acres we got 75 planted this year. There is also a neighbor that couldn't get his re enrolled he applied twice and was rejected and another neighbor that was denied the first time on there crp PLOTS because there was 2 one acre corn food plot. So before you bash farmers for being so greedy take a look at out f'd government
 

lunkerslayer

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Stutsman county is hilly land with a soil composition of a silty loam soil which it turn does benefit from no till, but I have my doubts as to your claims to less chemicals. Unless you grow nothing but soybeans and corn which does needs less work to produce good crop return. Also with the popularity of no till farming has also brought on the building of more fertilizer plants even I. The Jamestown area bringing a proposed pipeline of water and also a new plant being built in the grand forks area. I not saying no till farming is bad but would like to see more farmers allowing of planting of tree rows. The government is slow to react to such disasters of drought, but with humans tending to repeat such outcomes.
Jamestown
 
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gst

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It has been proven no till combined with cover crops can in fact reduce fertilizer and chemical requirements
 

Davey Crockett

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GST , Does it work ok on heavy ground ? Or, you flatlanders probably don't have any ? I don't see any No till up here, Must be that if you don't get it worked in the fall it stays wet so long in the spring ?
 

Deerwatcher

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No ti ll can work on any ground, there's a little more trial and error but in the long run its worth it. People worry about the wet ground but forget the root structure, example this year after we got the corn in we had about 8" of rain and were in the field over a week ahead most and some said they hadn't turned a wheel in over 2 weeks
 

gst

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Like was said, it can work on any ground. Sometimes soil temps can be an issue without black dirt to warm up in the spring, especially up in the hills, you guys are just that much colder up there. Rotations with tap rot plants such as sunflowers will open the soil profile. As deer watcher said, the root structures in the ground do in fact allow for better water absorption and can be a benefit to a point.
 


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