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<blockquote data-quote="Allen" data-source="post: 177088" data-attributes="member: 389">Yep, there certainly is a difference between grazing and overgrazing.&nbsp; I suspect you are misinterpreting something there with the intent of Sedevec's work.&nbsp; While the stubble requirement may be higher than some of the vegetation, it is certainly not higher than all of the vegetation. It is plant species specific, so I can absolutely see where he can be asked if the stubble height requirement is greater than some native species and he would have to answer &quot;yes&quot;, there are some short species of vegetation.&nbsp; What he should have been asked is if the stubble height proposed was reasonable given the totality of the grazing and the mixture of grasses and forbs in a given plot.&nbsp; I don't think I am accusing anyone of anything other than noting that your statement of &quot;...meaning to be in compliance these cattle would have ot be removed before they even got started grazing.&quot; is not exactly true unless you know of a parcel with only a single species of grass that is naturally below the stubble requirement.&nbsp; Umm, you do know the USFS provides fencing materials to the leaseholder and installs most (I won't say all) of the wells on the public lands, right?&nbsp; Has this changed?&nbsp; Accusations?&nbsp; You mean where I have seen what I considered to be overgrazing in the past?&nbsp; I guess we could get into the symantecs and hire a range scientist to tell us which of us has a more proper idea of what constitutes overgrazing, but in general it's kind of like what the SCOTUS said about porn, it's tough to put it in writing, but you know it when you see it.&nbsp; One thing I will say though is that I don't see it nearly as much as I did 10-20 years ago.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Allen, post: 177088, member: 389"] Yep, there certainly is a difference between grazing and overgrazing. I suspect you are misinterpreting something there with the intent of Sedevec's work. While the stubble requirement may be higher than some of the vegetation, it is certainly not higher than all of the vegetation. It is plant species specific, so I can absolutely see where he can be asked if the stubble height requirement is greater than some native species and he would have to answer "yes", there are some short species of vegetation. What he should have been asked is if the stubble height proposed was reasonable given the totality of the grazing and the mixture of grasses and forbs in a given plot. I don't think I am accusing anyone of anything other than noting that your statement of "...meaning to be in compliance these cattle would have ot be removed before they even got started grazing." is not exactly true unless you know of a parcel with only a single species of grass that is naturally below the stubble requirement. Umm, you do know the USFS provides fencing materials to the leaseholder and installs most (I won't say all) of the wells on the public lands, right? Has this changed? Accusations? You mean where I have seen what I considered to be overgrazing in the past? I guess we could get into the symantecs and hire a range scientist to tell us which of us has a more proper idea of what constitutes overgrazing, but in general it's kind of like what the SCOTUS said about porn, it's tough to put it in writing, but you know it when you see it. One thing I will say though is that I don't see it nearly as much as I did 10-20 years ago. [/QUOTE]

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