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Message: <blockquote data-quote="gst" data-source="post: 177092" data-attributes="member: 373">Allen just sharing a few actual facts to offset anecdotal claims and observations.  I believe I do a pretty good job of "full disclosure" as compared to most others here in the fact I generally include the link to the facts I share rather than offering simple stories. Say by the way, I was wondering what back ground (you know experience.education) do you have to determine VORs as they relate to grazing anyways....- - - Updated - - -  Once again plains relies on his "experiences" from 40 years ago. A bit has changed since then including hte "range science classes" he took back then. Timing of grazing on different varieties of grasses is more critical than plains mentions, actually he doesn;t mention that. I have been ot a couple seminars Ray Banister from Mt has put on about intensive grazing. Plains and I had a discussion where I shared a fair bit of information on grazing that Mr Banister has developed. In that conversation plains had less than flattering things to say about Mr. Banisters methods he has developed largely on his own experiences yet Mr Banisters results speak for them selves. Rangeland management has came a Loooong ways in 40 plus years since plains was walking the soles off his boots. http://www.farmandranchguide.com/news/livestock/montana-rancher-rejuvenates-pastures-with-boom-bust-grazing/article_5855b538-a6ac-11e2-a401-0019bb2963f4.htmlBut you see even though these "graze it to the dirt/tooth marks on the rocks" plans with rest and recovery have been proven to work to actually rejuvenate range land,  folks like Allen and plains would be claiming that the range has been permanently damaged instead of being rejuvenated. From the USDA link I shared earlier........"More than 74,000 letters and postcards werereceived on the draft and final plans, and theEISs for the Northern Great Plains planningarea." How many of those 74,000 people do you suppose were even from ND? How many know anything at all about rangeland management? How many know the difference between a forb and a grass plant? How many even know which end of a cow.....well you get my drift. But I would bet a goodly portion of those public comments spoke about over grazing and the impact it has on the environment. Enough so that a plan to end grazing on the grasslands was proposed but declined. The point of all this is the very folks plains likes ot share links from like the Seirra Club and Wildlands Defenders ect.... are seeking ot end all grazing of public multiple usage lands. Ranchers today know that, changes are being made often times driven by ranchers themselves to better these public range lands. Yet people like plains try to ignore and deny the facts instead claiming ranchers "whining" about fire risks close hunting seasons.the trouble is he never provides sources to back up his claims and when he does share a link.........they almost inevitably have groups like those environmental radicals mentions as their sources of information. Hows that for "full disclosure" allen?</blockquote>

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