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Message: <blockquote data-quote="gst" data-source="post: 177094" data-attributes="member: 373">Well you see allen for those that understand range management and grasslands a bit more than from ridin around with Grandpa there are many mitigating factors one should consider before making a blanket claim of over grazing. (not that one can;t learn plenty from their Grandpa) So essentially what you are telling us is that little to none of your livlihood is tied ot the condition of rangelands you run cattle on nor have you any educational back ground in range management..........yet you are somehow more............okay then. first of all what is apparently obvious to most is that your A & B pics are of the top of a hill in what apparently is rocky soil with very little top soil. (you didn;t see any tooth marks on the rocks did you?) We don;t see what is in the rest of the pasture those cattle are contained in do we? Perhaps on the other side of that hill lies a lush green valley where the deer and antelope are playing? We don;t know if this is in an area that has been short of moisture so that grasses never grew and have been this short all summer or if this was two foot tall grass ate down to the ground after 3 months of continuous grazing. We do not know if this is a portion of an once over intensive grazing rotation where this land is grazed for 7 days and rested for 358We do not know if this is a once in a many year ocurance as drought grips much of our state and people try to hang on to a core portion of their herd or an ongoing every year occurance. I can certainly continue with 16 more questions, but these first 4 questions serve to hi lite the point I am trying ot make once again. Those 74,000 people commenting on the range management plan for the LMNG (you got that acronym figured out right) likely know less than you from growing up on a ranch many years ago. And yet they and the orgs that plainsman like ot copy and paste links from like the Seirra Club ans Wildlands Defenders and BCHA are impacting the management of public lands in an attempt to move them away from the multiple use promises they have existed under for generations. Of course there are examples of over grazing....different producers different years ect........hell we have a spring pasture we get pairs out of the slop of the corrals in the spring on that is over grazed every year. Most years we allow it to recover without any thing grazing on if for 10 1/3 months, but for 1 1/2 months it looks FAR worse than the A & B pics you shared especially this spring before it rained. But when you have govt range land scientists claiming the LMNG are NOT being over grazed and ecosystems damaged in the link I shared, ...........I thought that may have put an end to the claims and stories and accusations and "discouraging words" . (ya ya ya I know it was not you claiming ranchers shut down hunting seasons) So what exactly was YOUR point in all this? That ranchers want to intentionally damage public lands on ten year leases and eventually be forced off these lands as the public driving by in their Prius sees a few dried up cow turds and short grass?  ???I have  to some on here's nausea, repeatedly over the years made "full disclosure" that MY point is these environmental/ conservation groups are removing multiple uses from our public lands such as logging, grazing, off roading ect...that will EVENTUALLY include hunting and that sportsmen and ranchers and loggers can ill afford to be making foolish claims and accusations like we see on these sites over the years.  So what exactly is your point?- - - Updated - - -I am curious allen, are you the type pf person that would post pictures of a pasture in an extreme drought area where someone is trying to keep a portion of their herd after selling off 70% of the rest of their cattle and claim these folks were intentionally over grazing their range lands to try and prove some point in an internet argument?  I never used ot think so. We have one fella suggesting those same people are "whining" about the fire danger and trying ot close hunting seasons already on here that has a history of that, do we really need another?</blockquote>

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