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Message: <blockquote data-quote="gst" data-source="post: 183594" data-attributes="member: 373">The Federal govt should generate enough from it's leasing of these lands to pay for the maintnance of ALL the roads in the area after the lumber is logged. Before and during the extraction it should be the responsibility of the logging company IMO. The simple fact you beleive these roads are  "unneeded" shows a bit of a misunderstanding of what is happening all across the west that I have shared numerous links to. The numbers of fires deemed catastrophic has increased since the push to remove access and change the management plans of these Federal agencies from lawsuits brought forth by those that would save the spotted owl and other casues. Mt can not even use state owned helicopters to help battle catastrophic fires on Federal lands becasue of Federal agencies standards for the helicopters they require. you want to see the result of these ideals driving these federal agencies policies read this link. <a href="https://www.fs.fed.us/sites/default/files/2015-Fire-Budget-Report.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.fs.fed.us/sites/default/files/2015-Fire-Budget-Report.pdf</a>Climate change is the ONLY causation of the increase in catastrophic fires in this report by the Federal agency in charge of these subordinate agencies like the USFS and BLM. There is no mention of the lawsuits and ideological changes to forest management that has impacted the numbers of catastrophic fires as well as increasing the cost of fighting them. (I recently shared a link to a fire currently burning in Mt that a judge had stopped logging on saying the risk of wildfire was minimal) and yet this agency needs more tax payer dollars to fight these fires. these fires have very REAL impacts on the communities by them. These wilderness designations have very real impacts o the communities that are near them. So if you would in your support of increasing these wilderness designations here is my question to you. Can you list the impacts felt by the communities of families when these designations are imposed by the stroke of a pen often at the behest of groups like the one listed in the beginning post. To start you out, how about listing the impacts from the closure of Utahs largest coal find because of a national monument designation. here's a good link to read. <a href="http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865687607/The-monumental-battle-over-the-West.html" target="_blank">http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865687607/The-monumental-battle-over-the-West.html</a>Take the time to actually read it. Then here my second question you can answer before asking me one. It is derived from this article. Utah has an $8 billion dollar tourist economy. Where do those dollars come from? Please allow me to expand a bit, with some information. Tourist dollars are largely service industry dollars. Those dollars are recycled dollars, redistributed wealth. What actually generates those dollars in this nation? Where do they come from? Fritz has spoken to this a number of times. Those businesses in these tourist communities are not generating wealth they are merely recirculating a finite amount of dollars. So where do the dollars that build and grow a nation, a state, a community come from to ultimately trickle down so that a tourist has a dollar to spend somewhere?. from the very things these monument and wilderness designations and the orgs behind them seek to "prohibit or severely restrict" thru the Federal govt management(from the link above....."There is ranching that does occur on BLM or Forest Service allotments, but two-thirds of the 1.35 million acres inside Bears Ears includes wilderness or other land use designations that either prohibit or severely restrict any resource extraction.") I appreciate your desire to continue the promised multiple usage of these public lands, but you seem willing to ignore the reality of what is actually happening. (all those question marks are only meant to provide you something to think about rather than answer) Those of us that have followed this issue for years are acutely aware of the changes orgs like the Seirra Club and those like them have gained in the management of these lands and the declarations that are being made that impact them. Despite fools accusations by a small handful of people on these outdoors sites over the years, people like myself do NOT wish to see a sell off of these lands nor a wholesale raping of them either. I like the tought of wild untouched lands somewhere. But we live in small communities much like those impacted by these agendas and ideologies. We have friends that have been impacted directly when mills and mines and ranch supply stores shut down as these uses are "prohibited or severely restricted". We see the effects of communities that have to change from independent wealthy communities from commodity production and the revenues those generate to govt dependent welfare cases waiting on payment in lieu of taxes from the govt to fund their schools. The hippy comes in and tells the rancher you need to get with the times and create a bed and breakfast to house the mountain bikers, those cows are killing the desert tortoise people want to see. The environ comes in and tells the miner you have to get with the times and start a kayak rental instead of pollute the stream with your mine. The activist comes in and tells the logger you need to create a bird watching tour instead of logging these forests destroying habitat and people who for generations BUILT things and CREATED wealth and built communities under the govts encouragement to settle these vast western lands with promises of land usage are now lectured and controlled by those that actually believe it is climate change that causes more forest fires and not the stoppage of management thru logging. ""They all hate drilling, they all hate coal mines and they all hate fossil fuel except for the fact that it runs their air conditioner in the summer and it gets their vehicles to where they are going," he said"And their dying community is supposed to revive itself with a musical and tourist shops and the rancher is supposed to recite poetry every night at 7 oclock. From the link I shared"""Monument designation has become a marketing tool that transforms these places, that transforms these communities and people around them in ways that most average citizens don't consider," said Jim Stiles, founder and publisher of the independent newspaper Canyon Country Zephyr................What concerns me about their attitude is that they don't really consider the people who have lived there the last 100 years. They are not interested in helping these rural communities, they are interested in replacing them.""But hey that is progress. recycle those dollars enough times and everyone is happy right? . Mean while the govt that has "prohibited and severely restricted" mining, logging grazing that create wealth is borrowing more national debt so we have enough dollars to redistribute........What can go wrong? Sorry for the novel. Hope it stirs more thought than fools accusations of greed and selling the public land.- - - Updated - - - That is a response to a bigger picture than just ND and how these designations impact all public lands. If we  only want to look at and concern ourselves with what impacts us here in our state, why not have these lands managed by the state? If not, then the reality is the restrictions placed on these designations are not generated or controlled by North Dakota residents but by groups like the Sierra Club and others in Wash. DC and those that beleive in climate change and unicorns. - - - Updated - - -  Fly, where do you think the designations on these Federal lands come from, Bismarck? If you wish ot have an honest fact based discussion on the impacts of these designations on federal lands you HAVE to include the background on who and what has driven the ideological changes in the policies behind the designation itself and the Federal agencies that implement them.- - - Updated - - -1. Not all designations grand father motor vehicle usage in. On ocassion even hunting has been limited. Wilderness designations pretty much stop logging and mining so how do you rectify that contradiction? 2. So if you would in your support of increasing these wilderness designations here is my question to you. Can you list the impacts felt by the communities of families when these designations are imposed by the stroke of a pen often at the behest of groups like the one listed in the beginning post.3.But hey that is progress. recycle those dollars enough times and everyone is happy. Mean while the govt that has "prohibited and severely restricted" mining, logging grazing that create wealth is borrowing more national debt so we have enough dollars to redistribute........What can go wrong? Fly, if you care to answer the above three questions, I owe you two answers. - - - Updated - - -Stumbled across this. Interesting ideas. <a href="https://www.americantrails.org/resources/feds/land/AltWildernessClark.html" target="_blank">https://www.americantrails.org/resources/feds/land/AltWildernessClark.html</a>- - - Updated - - -  If those of us in ND can direct the management of this designation I would whole heartedly agree. The simple fact is we do not. The truth is we as a state have very little say in the issue. I do not have an issue with a roadless designation of 5% of the LMNG.....I have issues with the orgs behind the designation and the ideologies they push. And it is my opinion that ALL sportsmen should as well.- - - Updated - - -My publisist says this constitutes a mini novel.</blockquote>

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