Phone double post. My screw up.
Yes, and you have to ask some questions. What are these taxes for? They are for schools, roads, etc. So who lives on this land that needs schooling? Nobody. Who lives on this land that needs roads? Again nobody. States and counties like federal gov can't get enough money so they go after the Fed gov as if those tax dollars are magic and don't cost anyone. I think they get something like 75%. 25% would be more than fair. Ironicly people who say they are conservative will say they are owed it. No they are not.
People like to guess at what the founding fathers envisioned. What a joke to think they know. The founding fathers could not envision the land explored by Lewis and Clark so they had no foundation to have an opinion. They couldn't imagine people trying to farm some land so poor, then losing it. They could not envision farmers on the gov tit and whining for more. In their wildest dreams they could not imagine land posting and asking a neighbor for money to hunt. Be very careful the questions you ask if the founding fathers could not imagine you face in the trough.
People like to guess at what the founding fathers envisioned. What a joke to think they know. The founding fathers could not envision the land explored by Lewis and Clark so they had no foundation to have an opinion. Thomas Jefferson was a farmer and part of the Corps of Discoveries mission was to collect flora and fauna. I believe Jefferson had an agrarian vision for settling the Great Plains. We live here because our founding fathers had the foresight to make the Louisianan Purchase from Napoleon Bonaparte of France who gained it through war with Spain. They couldn't imagine people trying to farm some land so poor, then losing it. They probably envisioned a land where a man could raise his family and own some land. Hunting is important but I believe they put their families/livelyhoods first. They could not envision farmers on the gov tit and whining for more. Plains, everyone is on to you making these wild claims to push someone's buttons. In their wildest dreams they could not imagine land posting and asking a neighbor for money to hunt. Be very careful the questions you ask if the founding fathers could not imagine you face in the trough.
No that isnt the reason. That's liberal thinking. It's not up to gov to prop up business. The portion the gov pays is to be used the same as your land tax. Do they use your land tax dollars to prop up local business? They use my income tax to prop you up.And as such the govt pays these fees to offset loss of income when industries such as the timber and ranching and mining are shut down.
Absolutely, and the only difference is the smaller the politician the cheaper to buy.Also seems that state politicians are just as influenced by money as the feds are and dont let people manage the land with sound science vs political driven agendas.
i dont know if i dont think states can afford it they just wont do any better than the feds. The land management boards in the western states make some bad rules and are pretty poor them selves. They are all appointed so no one has any recourse once they make bad rules like the no camping on colorado state lands. Also seems that state politicians are just as influenced by money as the feds are and dont let people manage the land with sound science vs political driven agendas.
They use my income tax to prop you up.
.
You paid income tax? Since a salary is something you get paid for working for someone else what do you call it when you get paid for doing nothing?Actually my income tax
plainsman you might wantto read a bit before you make our claims.
http://www.opb.org/news/article/no-federal-timber-payments-mean-leaner-times-ahead/
Federal timber payments to counties in the Pacific Northwest may be a thing of the past, after funding failed to make it into a Congressional spending bill this week.
The program has been in place for nearly 15 years. It’s been a lifeline for many counties, especially in Oregon.
For the past century, when timber was logged on federal land, the county where that land was located would get a cut of the profits. The reason: counties couldn’t collect property taxes on federal lands, yet still had to provide services there.
“The program’s been around for a very, very, very long time and the taxing system in Oregon grew up around that program being available,” says Douglas County Commissioner Susan Morgan.
But counties in Southwest Oregon, like Morgan’s, were hit especially hard financially in the 1990s, when endangered species protections for spotted owls required that the birds’ old-growth habitat be made off-limits to chainsaws
- - - Updated - - -
http://boisestatepublicradio.org/po...le-federal-timber-rules-slow-harvest#stream/0
Government money, the national forest, and counties
It wasn’t just jobs that were lost as the national forest logging heyday began its downward slide. Some of the money that communities got from the federal government was affected as well.
For years, the federal government has compensated counties for some of the money they can’t make off of the federal lands within their borders. There are two main funds.
Payments in Lieu of Taxes or PILT are federal payments to rural communities that contain federal land, including national forests and Bureau of Land Management land. The goal of PILT is to help offset losses in property taxes because counties can’t tax federal lands within their boundaries. The government has handed over more than $6.3 billion in PILT payments to states since the program started in 1977. PILT money is distributed based on a complicated formula, including county populations and how much federal land is within the county. Counties then spend the money on law enforcement, schools, roads, and search and rescue operations.
CREDIT DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
The other fund stems from an act passed by the U.S. Congress in 1908. It directed the U.S. Treasury to make a yearly payment to states based on national forest receipts. That adds up to 25 percent of the money the government receives each year. The cash is supposed to go to public schools and road maintenance. That money continued to rise until the mid-90s when it started falling off. That act was amended in 2000 by the Secure Rural Schools Act which made it into a more uniform payment. It was designed to act as a bridge for counties, that were suffering from the a loss of timber money. The act has since expired, but has managed to hang on with renewals by Congress. Jay O’Laughlin says the law's future is very uncertain.
Chart not adjusted for inflation
CREDIT U.S. FOREST SERVICE
Not everyone is happy with the program. "We are a very proud people, we don’t want a government hand out, we don’t want Secure Rural Schools,” says Mark Mahon. “The people of Adams County just want to go to work, and we want to maintain and take care of ourselves, we don’t want the government to send us a check so that we can maintain our roads and put our kids through school. We have this renewable resource all around us and we can’t use it. It’s tied up.”
- - - Updated - - -
Yep real liberal thinking there............:;:huh
- - - Updated - - -
Take a look at this info kurt.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...ic-lands-for-recreation-better-than-feds.html
Here is the group that did the study..........radical greedy republicans just wanting to steal the publics land according to plainsman.
http://sutherlandinstitute.org/issue-core-principles/
[FONT="]CORE
[h=1]PRINCIPLES[/h][/FONT]
Inspiring ideas, transformational thoughts and powerful principles led our country from the Boston Tea Party to the Constitutional Convention, and became the foundation for the United States of America. Ideas like a free market economy, federalism, religious freedom and community-driven solutions inspire citizens to act, generate practical policy solutions and are the source for A New Birth of Freedom.
- - - Updated - - -
Plains....we have been thru this before right down to showing you exactly where your income tax dollars actually go and the return on investment you get back in food costs thru this nations food security programs.
Do you have to be shown again how much the pennies the govt takes for food security programs are returned to you one hundred fold?
Actually my income tax dollars and everyone elses paid your entire salary for years if you want to start comparing where our tax dollars go...........
So how about you drop the foolish claims once and for all plains.
That was my previous point along with pointing out they really don't provide services. It's a scam.The reason: counties couldn’t collect property taxes on federal lands, yet still had to provide services there.
I guess I might ask "how much is enough".Ninety-five percent of the grasslands are open to roads and 5 percent is designated as roadless.
Plains said,
You paid income tax? Since a salary is something you get paid for working for someone else what do you call it when you get paid for doing nothing?
Problem is those groups have just as much say as we do none. It's the land boards who are appointed by politicians. Maybe make the people on the land boards an elected position on a 2 year basis with 4 years max term you could make sure there is less corruption.
Of course some people who pay no taxes bitch about how "their tax dollars" are being used.
How much is enough? Do they really need the last five percent or is the effort just an exercise in hatred of conservation?Ninety-five percent of the grasslands are open to roads and 5 percent is designated as roadless.
New tax dollars are a political concept. There is no difference in tax dollars. A dollar is a dollar. Raw materials and labor both produce the same thing. You can dig an ounce of gold out of the ground or work for a month and pay your tax dollar. Both tax dollars have the same value, and there is nothing new about that dollar. The gold will perhaps become jewelry and cost twice as much. The business will pay taxes again on that chunk of gold. It's worth more because of the labor. That's as new as any other dollar. Some look to hard for ways to pat themselves on the back. The money from every tax payer on this site is as good as those who dig gold or raise corn. Ask them if they feel less valuable than you.So where do "new" tax dollars come from? Perhaps agriculture and mining?
How much is enough? Do they really need the last five percent or is the effort just an exercise in hatred of conservation?
You can dig an ounce of gold out of the ground or work for a month and pay your tax dollar
The money from every tax payer on this site is as good as those who dig gold or raise corn. Ask them if they feel less valuable than you.
10 dollars for the polititians to spend.Plains said,
The article was written by Lauren Donavan and that wording is clever. You took the bait. North Dakota is surveyed in squares and where there is no road there is probably a section line. The dispute is about those section lines. "NOT" about the 5% designated road less. Not sure why Lauren felt the need to insert road less areas into the discussion. But she got you.
Lauren lives in Hazen and is way far left. She doesn't approve of hunting. East of Hazen along the river was a scenic area where people recreated, hunted, hiked and the kids from town drove along the railroad tracks with their motorcycles to do a little off road. Lauren built the first house there and now it is a development. You betcha, Lauren is all about setting aside wild scenic places.
Digging for gold is "mining."
If I give you a haircut for twenty bucks and you do my laundry for twenty bucks.....how much new wealth did we create?
No kidding. That was my point one is mining and the other is labor.Digging for gold is "mining."
If I give you a haircut for twenty bucks and you do my laundry for twenty bucks.....how much new wealth did we create?
That's so correct it's best to leave it there. Would that be new dollars or old dollars? ;:;popcorn10 dollars for the polititians to spend.
That's so correct it's best to leave it there. Would that be new dollars or old dollars? ;:;popcorn
Plains said,
The article was written by Lauren Donavan and that wording is clever. You took the bait.?
The article was written by Lauren Donavan and that wording is clever. You took the bait. North Dakota is surveyed in squares and where there is no road there is probably a section line. The dispute is about those section lines. "NOT" about the 5% designated road less. Not sure why Lauren felt the need to insert road less areas into the discussion. But she got you.
Lauren lives in Hazen and is way far left. She doesn't approve of hunting. East of Hazen along the river was a scenic area where people recreated, hunted, hiked and the kids from town drove along the railroad tracks with their motorcycles to do a little off road. Lauren built the first house there and now it is a development. You betcha, Lauren is all about setting aside wild scenic places.