National Grasslands

johnr

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The federal government subsidizes crop insurance premiums to lower the cost and create an affordable option for the farmer.

They select which policy they want depending on coverage and cost, then the farmer gets billed for his acreage that he insured. The subsidy never gets into the actual producers hands, his premium is just partially taken care of.

If this wasn't an option, a vast majority of producers would be unable to afford it, and this would risk our countries food supply mores so than the expense of the program.
A farmer does not have a choice on the subsidized premiums, it is built into the policy, and even if GST didn't want a percentage of his policy to be covered in the farm program, he has no choice.

I don't farm, but I cant understand when people try to make it sound like a farmer is somehow "living on the system" for something they cant control.
 


gst

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I post links from the "liberal EWG" site, and you take the handouts.

Just simply posting your hypocrisy. Spin it however you want if it helps you sleep at night, but bottom line is you take handouts from the Federal government you seem to despise so much.


I don;t despise the federal govt when it operates within our Constitution.

As to hypocrisy, you and other consumers are the ultimate recipient of these "hand outs" and you gladly take them every time you go to the grocery store.

And yet you never once mention that.

THAT is the simple truth without any "spin".

But hey I like how you think sharing a bit of education on the Constitution and it's requirement regarding a taking is "spin"...........spoken like a good liberal.

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The oil companies wanted to drill on a wildlife refuge in Alaska. It was less than 1% of the land they wanted to drill on. With all the wild land in Alaska I think it was reasonable to let them drill. The logging companies tried to convince everyone that they would go out of business if they didn't get to log old growth timber. The bunny huggers tried to use and owl to turn it into an environmental issue. Old growth was less than 1/10 of 1%. Again reason should dictate in this case that they can't have it. Now we look at the badlands with only 5% designated roadless. Reasonable again should say they can't have that last five percent. For the oil companies reason is in their favor, for the logging companies and pro road people reason is not in their favor. The oil companies wanted less than 1%, but the timber and pro road people want it all. That's unreasonable. Better??????

Plains please educate yourself before making accusations and claims.

You are using a tried and true liberal method of making inflamatory claims to stir up support even if they are not true.

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The federal government subsidizes crop insurance premiums to lower the cost and create an affordable option for the farmer.

They select which policy they want depending on coverage and cost, then the farmer gets billed for his acreage that he insured. The subsidy never gets into the actual producers hands, his premium is just partially taken care of.

If this wasn't an option, a vast majority of producers would be unable to afford it, and this would risk our countries food supply mores so than the expense of the program.
A farmer does not have a choice on the subsidized premiums, it is built into the policy, and even if GST didn't want a percentage of his policy to be covered in the farm program, he has no choice.

I don't farm, but I cant understand when people try to make it sound like a farmer is somehow "living on the system" for something they cant control.

The problem arises when like a typical govt program a loophole is found to exploit the program.

Over and over again in virtually every aspect of govt at the Federal level, the programs and management they design allows for fraud and abuse and manipulation. And that is why someone like myself has a hard time with people wanting more and more govt control at the Federal level on anything including public lands.

I have asked before for folks ot provide examples of programs and depts ran by the Federal govt that are run more efficiently and productively when compared to private or even state programs.

Anyone want to share some?

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Plainsmans version.

Now we look at the badlands with only 5% designated roadless. Reasonable again should say they can't have that last five percent.

the actual truth.

"The delegation requested Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue and Attorney General Jeff Sessions work with North Dakota and the affected counties to find a “mutually acceptable settlement.”"
 

db-2

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I just shoot gophers on my own land. And my neighbors land. Do not need no federal land to do so. So a lot of things do not matter to me. And on ground next to ground I post I also post no trespassing signs next to the signs that says public water fowl and open to public hunting. That will show them there esp. when they have to past my sign to get to their federal land. Just like in mule deer country all in western ND. db
 

Stan's Dad

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I don;t despise the federal govt when it operates within our Constitution.

As to hypocrisy, you and other consumers are the ultimate recipient of these "hand outs" and you gladly take them every time you go to the grocery store.

And yet you never once mention that.

THAT is the simple truth without any "spin".

But hey I like how you think sharing a bit of education on the Constitution and it's requirement regarding a taking is "spin"...........spoken like a good liberal.

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Plains please educate yourself before making accusations and claims.

You are using a tried and true liberal method of making inflamatory claims to stir up support even if they are not true.

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The problem arises when like a typical govt program a loophole is found to exploit the program.

Over and over again in virtually every aspect of govt at the Federal level, the programs and management they design allows for fraud and abuse and manipulation. And that is why someone like myself has a hard time with people wanting more and more govt control at the Federal level on anything including public lands.

I have asked before for folks ot provide examples of programs and depts ran by the Federal govt that are run more efficiently and productively when compared to private or even state programs.

Anyone want to share some?

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Plainsmans version.



the actual truth.

"The delegation requested Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue and Attorney General Jeff Sessions work with North Dakota and the affected counties to find a “mutually acceptable settlement.”"


"mutually acceptable settlement" Just like the excess lands along the missouri/Sak
 

gst

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"mutually acceptable settlement" Just like the excess lands along the missouri/Sak

But that is not quite a "settlement" yet is it?

There is a responsibility by We the people to watch our govt right?

A question for you if you would answer.

Do you think your local district reps are easier to contact and more responsive to the concerns you may share along with other Congressmen here in the state, or do you think Our three Federal Reps and their colleges across the nation are more responsive to your concerns?
 


Brian Renville

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I'm not so sure federal judges overruling states on their environmental projects is ever good at this point. I know there are good exceptions yet that's the current mood. The intake diversion on the Yellowstone is becoming a big example. The "defenders of wildlife" has convinced a judge to change his mind to believing a dam with a fish bypass cant help and that dams need to be removed altogether. Lets make no mistake this is just a small start to the plans of these environmentalists and the judges don't know and don't care about any humans that live there, they have their sights set on the bigger dams. Issue is still up in the air but not looking good.
 

dblkluk

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Just curious gst, How many times in your life have you hunted, fished, camped or otherwise recreated on federal public lands?

I'd bet not many. Probably why you cant see the recreational value of them.

My family and I have already spent almost 40 days this year alone recreating on State and Federal lands.

I'm sure the local economies closely tied to those public lands are pretty happy that we and so many others are there.
 

guywhofishes

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Zappa-the-cute-dog.jpg


I have nothing of substance. Carry on.
 

dank

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Is fire the worst thing in the world for prairie grasses? Are there structures at risk?
 


Kurtr

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Just curious gst, How many times in your life have you hunted, fished, camped or otherwise recreated on federal public lands?

I'd bet not many. Probably why you cant see the recreational value of them.

My family and I have already spent almost 40 days this year alone recreating on State and Federal lands.

I'm sure the local economies closely tied to those public lands are pretty happy that we and so many others are there.


i know he has spent more time in the mountains on horseback chasing elk than i have.

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Is fire the worst thing in the world for prairie grasses? Are there structures at risk?

well when all the dirt is in fargo it wont be that good of deal
 

PrairieGhost

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Is fire the worst thing in the world for prairie grasses? Are there structures at risk?
On some public land I have looked at about 20 native plant species not seen for years germinated after burning. Some plant seed requires freezing, and many people are aware of that, but far fewer people are aware that some of our native species require fire (scarification). Many prairie plant species benefit from a burn. Plants that are indicators of over grazing are often reduced with a burn as are non native invasives.

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Is fire the worst thing in the world for prairie grasses? Are there structures at risk?
On some public land I have looked at about 20 native plant species not seen for years germinated after burning. Some plant seed requires freezing, and many people are aware of that, but far fewer people are aware that some of our native species require fire (scarification). Many prairie plant species benefit from a burn. Plants that are indicators of over grazing are often reduced with a burn as are non native invasives.
Edit: Fire also allowed more nutrients to the vegetation, and studies in Kansas showed yearly he grazing burned pasture gained on the average 58 pounds more than yearnings grazing unburned pasture.
 

Timbuk-2

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Wow GST, a half million bucks. For all the bitchin you do, yer sure getting fat off the government.
 


johnr

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Exactly like Obamacare.

No, nothing like obamacare, it is not income based, it is not something that is free for some and more for others. They don't insure already damaged crops, and you have to qualify, you also have to practice good farming practices, and your crop is subject to inspection to try to eliminate any fraud.
It is in place so that we Americans can get that loaf of bread for a buck or two, rather than the actual cost of what that bread would be otherwise
 

gst

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Just curious gst, How many times in your life have you hunted, fished, camped or otherwise recreated on federal public lands?

I'd bet not many. Probably why you cant see the recreational value of them.

My family and I have already spent almost 40 days this year alone recreating on State and Federal lands.

I'm sure the local economies closely tied to those public lands are pretty happy that we and so many others are there.

When ever we go out elk hunting in Mt it is on both Federal and state public lands and Block management private lands. I spend time hunting and riding in the grasslands and badlands of our state.

Why do you assume I do not see the value in them? Please show where I have ever said they need to be sold off or there is no value in them from a recreation standing.

Do you think snowmobilers that recreate on these lands should be locked out? .

the discussion is about who can better manage them for their promised uses both recreational and other.

I am glad you are able to take 40 days off in the first half of the year to recreate on public lands.

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Exactly like Obamacare.

Would you care to pay my crop insurance premium? It is roughly three times the cost of my health insurance premium.

Say plains, what did you ever have to pay for health ins working for the govt?

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Wow GST, a half million bucks. For all the bitchin you do, yer sure getting fat off the government.

Yep those CRP payments add up. Say didn;t you sportsmen fellas like CRP?
 

Marbleyes

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I'm not against the subsidies for farmers but to suggest that consumers get a loaf of bread for a buck or two isn't exactly accurate since our tax dollars pay for those subsidies in the first place. Sure we get it for that at the store but we already paid for the subsidies before that loaf hits the shelf. If we didn't have subsidies for farmers the price swings would be wildly inconsistent and unpredictable for our food. Some years a loaf of bread would cost a crazy amount because of supply and demand. On top of that, without subsidies most farmers would go out of business since it would just take a bad year or two of weather etc. to completely wipe them out. Corporate farms would then take over. No thanks. You think it's hard to find a place to hunt now? Imagine if farmers/ranchers had to sell their land to corporations, you could kiss hunting good bye. It wouldn't take long for the second amendment to be a distant memory either. I realize the second isn't about hunting but the money hunters spend/donate to pro second amendment organizations to protect our rights would dwindle down to almost nothing. That's just the way I see it. Unintended consequences. And no, I'm not a farmer.
 

gst

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Marble, a few years back Plainsman was spouting off so I did the math for him. The ROI on the less than one penny of a tax dollar that actually goes to farm programs has a substantial return on it in food cost savings over most any other nation. If I could get a return like that on my investments I wouldn;t have to farm any more.

Subsidy and insurance payments have done nothing but drive up costs in agriculture. Suppliers know what the average acre payment is for crop ins and their costs are adjusted accordingly going up....not so much coming down.

Guys that have figured out the program deal are able to pay more for cash rent which drives it up for everyone.

Anyone that thinks these subsidies stay in the farmers pocket or get buried in a jar on the north 40 is fooling them selves.

So then who really gets these ag subsidies?

When I ask that no one ever answers.
 


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