National Grasslands

[Stan's Dad]

I'm having trouble understanding what's wrong with leaving a itty bitty piece of land in ND wild?

 

[fnznfwl]

Some "conservatives" will say well thats okay, but in reality the Federal govt is making more and more people dependent on their hand outs rather than an industry.

Yet you still have no problem accepting handouts.

https://farm.ewg.org/persondetail.php?custnumber=A07556731

 

[Fly Carpin]

Apparently working out "mutually acceptable settlements" is not what plains thinks is the way to manage these Federal lands and their promised multi use agreements.

Do you feel the USFS, in it's management of the Little Missouri National Grasslands, is currently not living up to their promised multi-use agreements?

 

[Fritz the Cat]

I'm having trouble understanding what's wrong with leaving a itty bitty piece of land in ND wild?

The section lines already exist. I believe this about building them up a bit to get equipment from the main road to whatever mineral they are trying to extract.

The newspaper lady did interviews and printed two:

Conservationists, including Wayde Schafer with the Dacotah Chapter of the Sierra Club, consider the ruling a victory that protects the Little Missouri National Grasslands from having roads constructed on every mi







“That’s certainly not what people want to see out in the Badlands,” Schafer said.But others argue it’s a state’s rights issue.

North Dakota Attorney General Wayne Stenehjem said his office was reviewing the 72-page decision and considering filing an appeal.

Stenehjem said the state maintains it has owned the section lines since statehood.


I'm going to have to side with the Attorney General.

 

[ndlongshot]

The section lines already exist. I believe this about building them up a bit to get equipment from the main road to whatever mineral they are trying to extract.

The newspaper lady did interviews and printed two:

Conservationists, including Wayde Schafer with the Dacotah Chapter of the Sierra Club, consider the ruling a victory that protects the Little Missouri National Grasslands from having roads constructed on every mi







“That’s certainly not what people want to see out in the Badlands,” Schafer said.But others argue it’s a state’s rights issue.

North Dakota Attorney General Wayne Stenehjem said his office was reviewing the 72-page decision and considering filing an appeal.

Stenehjem said the state maintains it has owned the section lines since statehood.


I'm going to have to side with the Attorney General.

If this is how you want to see the badlands developed, it tells me all I need to know about where you stand.

I for one, and many many other sportsman and everyday joe public, would be disgusted to see this happen. I am betting to guess you are in the minority on that one.

 

[Whisky]

The section lines already exist. I believe this about building them up a bit to get equipment from the main road to whatever mineral they are trying to extract.

The newspaper lady did interviews and printed two:

Conservationists, including Wayde Schafer with the Dacotah Chapter of the Sierra Club, consider the ruling a victory that protects the Little Missouri National Grasslands from having roads constructed on every mi







“That’s certainly not what people want to see out in the Badlands,” Schafer said.But others argue it’s a state’s rights issue.

North Dakota Attorney General Wayne Stenehjem said his office was reviewing the 72-page decision and considering filing an appeal.

Stenehjem said the state maintains it has owned the section lines since statehood.


I'm going to have to side with the Attorney General.

Since this is a hunting website. I'm going to have to side with the side that has the public land hunters best interests in mind....

 

[gst]

I'm having trouble understanding what's wrong with leaving a itty bitty piece of land in ND wild?

Nothing.

Take away Ms Donovans LIBERAL ideologies in what she writes and plainsmans wild accusations and the actual story is a bit different.

- - - Updated - - -

Yet you still have no problem accepting handouts.

https://farm.ewg.org/persondetail.php?custnumber=A07556731

And predictably the Liberal EWG site comes up.

Mr. Foul, do you know that the Constitution requires fair and just compensation whe the govt "takes" something from someone?

Do you understand the Farm program "takes" the ability to manage ones lands as they see fit in a mutual agreement whereby the govt compensates the farmer for that "takings"?

Do you know that these ag programs are part of this nations food security program were by you the consumer receives the actual end benefit?

Do you know that not one of those dollars from that listing are buried in a can in my back yard, but have all flowed thru the JD dealer, Ford Dealer, Menards, Macs, Home of Economy, a variety of ag supply and seed stores, Vet clinics, .................maybe even a business that pays your pay check.......so who actually is receiving this "hand out"?

And the simple truth that I have advocated for on this very site is that these food security programs designed to ultimately benefit YOU are for the ag producer like a snake eating its own tail. For every bite one things they gain, it is in essences simply contributing to the snakes demise.

If I was independently wealthy and not borrowing operating loans from a bank that REQUIRES one to enroll in govt ag programs I would not. It is why I would MUCH rather ranch than farm.

So my statement still stands that the Federal govt is making more and more people dependant on their hand outs rather than industry.

And yes that includes farming.

but hey here is the org you post from. So is it just a personal thing that gets you to that site or is it on your "favorites" list?

http://www.ewg.org/key-issues

Pick an ag story and we can show you where what is printed is full of holes and bullshit.

You and plains sure like to post stuff from these liberal websites, EWG, The Sierra Club ect.......the trouble is they are so agenda driven most often what they write is as bad as CNNs fake news. ;:;badidea

- - - Updated - - -

Do you feel the USFS, in it's management of the Little Missouri National Grasslands, is currently not living up to their promised multi-use agreements?

No I do not feel that nor have I ever suggested that. Many Federal lands are being managed by those that strongly believe in honoring multiple use promises. But there was a number of years where those people were either replaced or quit our of frustration (I beleive there was one that was posting on here that had quit that explained how these environ groups like EWG and the Sierra Club BCHA (you know the ones people on here like to post from) and others had forced their policies that tied the hands of those managers)

When I speak of how these Federal lands are being mismanaged and promises broken, THOSE are the examples I am referencing of which over the last 20 years there has become an increasing number of.

Here in ND, for the most part (out side of those environ groups trying to change residue management on these grasslands to require cover grass height after grazing that was actually taller than the native species grew as a means to limit grazing) the managers of these Federal lands here work pretty well with the multiple users in our state.

- - - Updated - - -

If this is how you want to see the badlands developed, it tells me all I need to know about where you stand.

I for one, and many many other sportsman and everyday joe public, would be disgusted to see this happen. I am betting to guess you are in the minority on that one.

Speaking for myself, I have no wish to see the grasslands developed as private lands are. That is why I actually think this statement that plainsman and some seem to want to ignore may hold a solution.

From the article.......""The delegation requested Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue and Attorney General Jeff Sessions work with North Dakota and the affected counties to find a “mutually acceptable settlement.”"


ndlongshot, my question to you is should the state these lands are located in have any say in their management?

Perhaps an example one can consider is an elk herd reduction program.

Should the state have had any say on that?

So what else should the state have a say on?

Maybe as a means to reach a "mutually acceptable settlement" as was done with the elk reduction?

- - - Updated - - -

The only reason I bothered to post on this thread is to once again try to curb the stupid accusations and wild claims that tie into the ideology behind the author of the article posted that some here try to hide their own support of.

People need to understand there is a pendelum that is at work when it comes to these public lands. There are those on both ends pushing and that is how it swings further and further.

Conversations void of the bullshit need to be engaged in to try and keep the management somewhere in the middle of that pendelum.

I personally think those conversations are easier to have and more fruitful when speaking with local state representatives.

Unless you guys are impressed with how easy it is to speak with those like Sen Heitkamp, or those from other states like Schummer and Pelosi, Maxine Waters, Boxer, Sanders, Pocahauntus/Warren......and others directly.........

Remember THOSE are the people that vote on how these Federal lands are managed here in ND.

Stop and think about that for a moment (if it doesn;t make you shake your head) and tell me how your voice is heard when it comes time to vote on something on "your" public lands here in ND.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

The irony:

There is currently a fire in the Grasslands. Watch the video and listen to what a young firefighter named Hlebachuk has to say.

He says...........nope, you have to hear it from him. Watch the clip.

http://www.myndnow.com/news/bismarc...eer-effort-to-fight-the-magpie-fire/762034223

 

[gst]

That was my previous point along with pointing out they really don't provide services. It's a scam.

.

Wait a minute.........plainsman says there are no services provided that local property taxes pay for.........guess those local fire crews from these surrounding communities are just a "scam" to folks like plains.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree with the people that say many states do a poorer job of management than the feds. You can find articles from radical groups that says otherwise, but then you can perhaps find articles that says the moon is made of green cheese too.

Ha, and plains true ideologies come to light.....THIS is the group plains claims is "radical".

http://sutherlandinstitute.org/issue-core-principles/

CORE

PRINCIPLES


Inspiring ideas, transformational thoughts and powerful principles led our country from the Boston Tea Party to the Constitutional Convention, and became the foundation for the United States of America. Ideas like a free market economy, federalism, religious freedom and community-driven solutions inspire citizens to act, generate practical policy solutions and are the source for A New Birth of Freedom.

 

[PrairieGhost]

Hmmmm did someone who wanted roads throw a match out. Many areas are tough to get to, that's why they use aircraft. Do you think they should have roads on every section in the Rockies?

Calling something you don't like liberal doesn't make it liberal, or you right. I hope others see through the falsehood. As a matter of fact some attitudes on handouts by people on here are to liberal for me. Evidently you will agree with me when the recipient is a lazy person and spends what he does have on booze and drugs. However when he simply takes whatever he can get it's ok. I notice many receive as much from the gov or more working for themselves as those on a salary working for someone else. Then the laws are loaded so they can deny the consumer buying from competition. All the while saying they are capitalists and support market driven prices. Hypocrisy at its finest. There is always an excuse why shafting us is good for us.

 

[gst]

Once again the article from the conservative group that plains calls "radical".

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865657267/Report-States-manage-public-lands-for-recreation-better-than-feds.html

Some more of the group plains calls "radical"......

http://sutherlandinstitute.org/principle-matters/




- - - Updated - - -

what people see through plains is your claims of conservatism. Hey why don;t you take a shot at answering the questions I asked ndlongshot?

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Plains said,

Hmmmm did someone who wanted roads throw a match out. Many areas are tough to get to, that's why they use aircraft. Do you think they should have roads on every section in the Rockies?

I don't know how you can get everything so muddled up in your head Plains? Did someone who wants roads built throw a match out you ask? Come on. And no one said anything about building roads on every section line in the Rockies. This article is about North Dakotans building up existing section lines in the grasslands.

In the video clip:

http://www.myndnow.com/news/bismarc...eer-effort-to-fight-the-magpie-fire/762034223

Cody Hlebechuk is talking about using bulldozers etc. to build roads to get to the Magpie fire. It's not funny but I do find it ironic. I wonder how many volunteers Wayde Schafer and the Sierra Club have sent? If they sent any we would know about it because they would be standing wherever a camera crew was set up.

 

[guywhofishes]

Wasn't the Politics forum created for endless tennis match threads like this?

 

[gst]

Ah hell man it has been a while since there was a volley filled thread (even though a few posts have been more of a net serve or a fault than an ace) .

 

[guywhofishes]

Ah hell man it has been a while since there was a volley filled thread (even though a few posts have been more of a net serve or a fault than an ace) .

it matters where it's kept?

- - - Updated - - -

reason it matters to me is that I use Activity Feed as my shortcut to NDA. It gets tiresome filtering through 50% of the same title over and over and over. Other than that I am glad people want to debate such things - I just don't have the attention span/interest to keep up after several pages.

 

[fnznfwl]

And predictably the Liberal EWG site comes up.

Mr. Foul, do you know that the Constitution requires fair and just compensation whe the govt "takes" something from someone?

Do you understand the Farm program "takes" the ability to manage ones lands as they see fit in a mutual agreement whereby the govt compensates the farmer for that "takings"?

Do you know that these ag programs are part of this nations food security program were by you the consumer receives the actual end benefit?

Do you know that not one of those dollars from that listing are buried in a can in my back yard, but have all flowed thru the JD dealer, Ford Dealer, Menards, Macs, Home of Economy, a variety of ag supply and seed stores, Vet clinics, .................maybe even a business that pays your pay check.......so who actually is receiving this "hand out"?

And the simple truth that I have advocated for on this very site is that these food security programs designed to ultimately benefit YOU are for the ag producer like a snake eating its own tail. For every bite one things they gain, it is in essences simply contributing to the snakes demise.

If I was independently wealthy and not borrowing operating loans from a bank that REQUIRES one to enroll in govt ag programs I would not. It is why I would MUCH rather ranch than farm.

So my statement still stands that the Federal govt is making more and more people dependant on their hand outs rather than industry.

And yes that includes farming.

but hey here is the org you post from. So is it just a personal thing that gets you to that site or is it on your "favorites" list?

http://www.ewg.org/key-issues

Pick an ag story and we can show you where what is printed is full of holes and bullshit.

You and plains sure like to post stuff from these liberal websites, EWG, The Sierra Club ect.......the trouble is they are so agenda driven most often what they write is as bad as CNNs fake news. ;:;badidea

- - - Updated - - -

I post links from the "liberal EWG" site, and you take the handouts.

Just simply posting your hypocrisy. Spin it however you want if it helps you sleep at night, but bottom line is you take handouts from the Federal government you seem to despise so much.

 

[PrairieGhost]

Wasn't the Politics forum created for endless tennis match threads like this?

I understand the frustration. We have agriculture interests riding herd so we can never get to what we should really be talking about on a hunting site. What we should really be talking about in relation to section line roads is habitat fragmentation, mule deer behavior in relation to human proximity and how that from a population dynamics viewpoint can turn a productive area into a population sink. Not to mention human behavior and a lot more pickup window deer hunting. Some people value wild places and some people don't. There is already an imbalance in wild land and development. The greedy have to have every last crumb at the table.

 

[Kurtr]

Rhetoric like that is what f's the whole system as nothing will get done when you go on D right of the bat.

 

[PrairieGhost]

The oil companies wanted to drill on a wildlife refuge in Alaska. It was less than 1% of the land they wanted to drill on. With all the wild land in Alaska I think it was reasonable to let them drill. The logging companies tried to convince everyone that they would go out of business if they didn't get to log old growth timber. The bunny huggers tried to use and owl to turn it into an environmental issue. Old growth was less than 1/10 of 1%. Again reason should dictate in this case that they can't have it. Now we look at the badlands with only 5% designated roadless. Reasonable again should say they can't have that last five percent. For the oil companies reason is in their favor, for the logging companies and pro road people reason is not in their favor. The oil companies wanted less than 1%, but the timber and pro road people want it all. That's unreasonable. Better??????

 

[gst]

it matters where it's kept?

- - - Updated - - -

reason it matters to me is that I use Activity Feed as my shortcut to NDA. It gets tiresome filtering through 50% of the same title over and over and over. Other than that I am glad people want to debate such things - I just don't have the attention span/interest to keep up after several pages.

Not one bit to me.