ATF early morning raid 1 dead

[DakotaGreg]

Also I used to be a staunch back the blue supporter but my stance has changed over the years. I have seen way too many instances of the them against us mentality coming from the law enforcement side. “To protect and to serve” has turned into “Do what I say cause I’m law enforcement”. There as always the “There’s gonna be a couple bad eggs” argument but it seems to be much more of a problem then just a couple of instances.

One thing the bad egg argument people never mention is: How are the bad eggs held accountable? Paid vacation and a dept. transfer?
Bad egg doctors get prosecuted.

As mentioned before, police ultimately follow orders. What if the orders are unjust, wicked, or immoral? What are laws other than opinions written on paper enforced at gunpoint? Disobedience can have consequences in the department so its safer to just do what your told and advance your career.

 

[Fester]

I was a staunch supporter of officers until recently. All I can say is they absolutely do protect there own..they will pull you over for no reason...make up a reason. Luckily the cameras can say what happened. 3 phone calls later I was told yeah..shouldn't have happened. Our officers need a shake up to where they protect and serve. Was a real eye opening experience and was absolutely shocked over it. It also left me zero faith in the officers. Thought it was just a bad apple..

 

[Obi-Wan]

Make it easier for them to lose their qualified immunity.
Do not let police lie to the public in the course of their duties. If I lie to them I can be charged but if they lie to me it’s legal, they even lie when signing traffic tickets or making official reports, it should go both ways.
Do not allow them to investigate themselves instead have a group of civilians with no connection to law enforcement handle the investigations. the system now is fucked up and usually the results are “ WE have investigated ourselves and found WE did nothing wrong “

 

[LBrandt]

What I know is if someone kicks in my house door in the wee hours of the night church bells are going to ring cause anyone can yell police . LB

 

[Davey Crockett]

No matter if your kids are perfect little angels or just average kids they need to be fully aware of their rights and responsibilities but still not hate cops or be afraid to call home for advice. There are over achievers in every industry who work extra hard to make themselves look good to thier boss for promotional reasons. Attitudes like that probably shouldn't be in law enforcement but it is what it is.
The case from Wahpeton comes to mind , That should never have happened. a couple other cases off the top of my head was an undercover pawn shop close to the Turtle Mountain Reservation. I think it was Doc's pawn shop . One guy wanted to sell a shotgun and Doc said he'd buy it but he wanted a shorter barrel so he took him in the back room and provided a hacksaw and bench vise and showed him where to cut it off and created a federal crime. I'd like to find the court documents from that one and try to confirm some of the other rumors.
Another court case from 1980s, 2 under cover cops set up a trailer house in a trailer park in Billings and hosted lots of parties and smoked pot . They kept asking their neighbor if he would sell them some pot but he wouldn't , when they kept asking he finally GAVE the guys 1.7 grams of pot and wouldn't take any money for it. Based on that alone, the guy ended up spending 5 years in prison , Creating and convicting criminals on taxpayers nickel. There should be a law against that.

 

[Pheasant 54]

No matter if your kids are perfect little angels or just average kids they need to be fully aware of their rights and responsibilities but still not hate cops or be afraid to call home for advice. There are over achievers in every industry who work extra hard to make themselves look good to thier boss for promotional reasons. Attitudes like that probably shouldn't be in law enforcement but it is what it is.
The case from Wahpeton comes to mind , That should never have happened. a couple other cases off the top of my head was an undercover pawn shop close to the Turtle Mountain Reservation. I think it was Doc's pawn shop . One guy wanted to sell a shotgun and Doc said he'd buy it but he wanted a shorter barrel so he took him in the back room and provided a hacksaw and bench vise and showed him where to cut it off and created a federal crime. I'd like to find the court documents from that one and try to confirm some of the other rumors.
Another court case from 1980s, 2 under cover cops set up a trailer house in a trailer park in Billings and hosted lots of parties and smoked pot . They kept asking their neighbor if he would sell them some pot but he wouldn't , when they kept asking he finally GAVE the guys 1.7 grams of pot and wouldn't take any money for it. Based on that alone, the guy ended up spending 5 years in prison , Creating and convicting criminals on taxpayers nickel. There should be a law against that.

There is also the payloader that was confiscated about the same time the above was going on in SE North Dakota . Some pretty strong arm tactics involved with the people trying to film it , it ended up getting shipped out of state and no one would/could explain why and where it went. It just disappeared.

 

[Obi-Wan]

These are the same guys that will be enforcing the newly announced Biden/harris red flag laws center

 

[Sum1]

These are the same guys that will be enforcing the newly announced Biden/harris red flag laws center

Yup. I have always said state and government entities including our beloved military WILL follow orders however wrong they may be. During hurricane Katrina they were confiscating weapons. Hitler gave a whole army, millions of men orders to burn innocent people alive and they followed them orders.

 

[Rowdie]

One thing the bad egg argument people never mention is: How are the bad eggs held accountable? Paid vacation and a dept. transfer?
Bad egg doctors get prosecuted.

As mentioned before, police ultimately follow orders. What if the orders are unjust, wicked, or immoral? What are laws other than opinions written on paper enforced at gunpoint? Disobedience can have consequences in the department so its safer to just do what your told and advance your career.

 

[Davey Crockett]

I found an old article about the Sting operation.

https://www.jamestownsun.com/news/agencies-hired-sex-offender-as-informant

 

[Fester]

What I don't understand is how a prosecuting autorney and detective can charge anyone with any crime for the most part( of course there has to be some evidence) with very very very loose evidence..twist it and now said person has to pay 10's of thousands of dollars in autorney fees trying to fight basically bs charges and let's say charges dropped person is innocent. The detective and autorney walk away with zero skin in the game..basically on to the next person. To me that's horrible...remember Richard jewel..good example.

 

[Fester]

I found an old article about the Sting operation.

https://www.jamestownsun.com/news/agencies-hired-sex-offender-as-informant

The way I read this is they are trying to create criminals. Some of this sounds as if not pushed they would have never done it.

 

[svnmag]

One thing the bad egg argument people never mention is: How are the bad eggs held accountable? Paid vacation and a dept. transfer?
Bad egg doctors get prosecuted.

As mentioned before, police ultimately follow orders. What if the orders are unjust, wicked, or immoral? What are laws other than opinions written on paper enforced at gunpoint? Disobedience can have consequences in the department so its safer to just do what your told and advance your career.

If I were King OF LE there would me annual training on the Constitution and a repeat of the Oath. If I were King Of Traffic everyone would have a year to complete a German inspired driving course or hoof it.

 

[Obi-Wan]

The way I read this is they are trying to create criminals. Some of this sounds as if not pushed they would have never done it.

A cousin #1 of mine spent a couple yrs in prison for getting another cousin #2 some weed. #2 was in some trouble of his own and wanted to get those charges dropped. #2 begged #1 for a while before #1 gave in and got #2 some weed. The police had #2 set the pickup place which was #1 parents house, which is where #1 still lived, he was 19. They chose the place for the fact it was within 1000 yds of a school which enhanced the jail time. # 1 was never in trouble before or since and that was about 25 plus years ago And to this day #1 is adamant he never got or sold weed to #2 before he was pressured into it.

 

[Obi-Wan]

If I were King OF LE there would me annual training on the Constitution and a repeat of the Oath. If I were King Of Traffic everyone would have a year to complete a German inspired driving course or hoof it.

Please explain the “ German inspired driving course “

 

[Fester]

A cousin #1 of mine spent a couple yrs in prison for getting another cousin #2 some weed. #2 was in some trouble of his own and wanted to get those charges dropped. #2 begged #1 for a while before #1 gave in and got #2 some weed. The police had #2 set the pickup place which was #1 parents house, which is where #1 still lived, he was 19. They chose the place for the fact it was within 1000 yds of a school which enhanced the jail time. # 1 was never in trouble before or since and that was about 25 plus years ago And to this day #1 is adamant he never got or sold weed to #2 before he was pressured into it.

Yikes! Stuff like this is so wrong..but a lawyer and someone with LE was able to put a feather in there hat over it. Sad that is what LE has come to. I also get not all are bad but from my recent experience I think it's more than a few bad apples.

 

[svnmag]

Please explain the “ German inspired driving course “

It was a tangent. Sorry. Germans DO NOT ride the left lane, are not idiots with high beams, give one another ample space etc.

 

[Davey Crockett]

There is also the payloader that was confiscated about the same time the above was going on in SE North Dakota . Some pretty strong arm tactics involved with the people trying to film it , it ended up getting shipped out of state and no one would/could explain why and where it went. It just disappeared.

What was the deal with the payloader ? I don't recall hearing anything about that.

 

[Obi-Wan]

What was the deal with the payloader ? I don't recall hearing anything about that.

I found this not sure this what he was referring to

https://www.jamestownsun.com/news/o...-suit-against-north-dakota-crime-bureau-agent

https://www.grandforksherald.com/ne...n-forbes-n-d-allegedly-destroyed-by-bci-agent

https://www.thedickinsonpress.com/n...t-faces-criminal-charges-in-payloader-dispute

 

[Rowdie]

Please explain the “ German inspired driving course “

I was in Germany in the early 80's. They're fn nuts, but can drive! It's a month long course to get a license and was $800 back then. DWI's are rare because they take them very serious. Most are caught at the scene of an accident. You have to experience it to really know.