2022: Let's Do Better Guns NOT New Rds

[svnmag]

https://www.chuckhawks.com/17caliber_cartridges.htm



https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/6-8-western/

 

[bucksnbears]

I quit reading right away.
I don't think? 17 rem is built off a .223 case?

 

[Skeeter]

 

[SDMF]

I quit reading right away.
I don't think? 17 rem is built off a .223 case?

Not directly off the 223Rem case. There are forming dies for doing so though. You've got to shorten the case and then re-establish the shoulder and neck.

The new cartridges are coming as a result of new projectiles that require significantly more RPM to stabilize. In todays litigious society, NOBODY wants to be the entity going to SAAMI for new specs on a 50, 60, 70 + year old cartridge. It's easier to spec a new chambering with the proper twist rate for the new projectiles.

A 1:7 or 1:8 22-250 using 70-90gn slickery projectiles is a thing of beauty, but, no manufacturer is going to go to SAAMI and say, well, despite an 80+yr safety record, we'd like to change the SAAMI spec on the 22-250 from 1:14 to 1:7 or 1:8. Nope, they're going to chamber a 22 Creedmoor in a 1:7 or 1:8 bbl. Yes, Ruger and Tikka did limited runs of 1:8 22-250's but you're not going to see gunmakers en-masse make a wholesale change to fast-twist 22-250's.

 

[KDM]

I'd be happy with ammo prices and availability like we had two years ago rather than getting new calibers you have to roll your own ammo for.

 

[bucksnbears]

Hmm, I always thought it was based off a .222remington mag case.

 

[SDMF]

Hmm, I always thought it was based off a .222remington mag case.

The .204 is a direct neck-down from the 222mag.

 

[bucksnbears]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[johnr]

I won a .204 a couple years back, one of my favorite truck guns, however no ammo for it anywhere as of now

 

[svnmag]

Not directly off the 223Rem case. There are forming dies for doing so though. You've got to shorten the case and then re-establish the shoulder and neck.

The new cartridges are coming as a result of new projectiles that require significantly more RPM to stabilize. In todays litigious society, NOBODY wants to be the entity going to SAAMI for new specs on a 50, 60, 70 + year old cartridge. It's easier to spec a new chambering with the proper twist rate for the new projectiles.

A 1:7 or 1:8 22-250 using 70-90gn slickery projectiles is a thing of beauty, but, no manufacturer is going to go to SAAMI and say, well, despite an 80+yr safety record, we'd like to change the SAAMI spec on the 22-250 from 1:14 to 1:7 or 1:8. Nope, they're going to chamber a 22 Creedmoor in a 1:7 or 1:8 bbl. Yes, Ruger and Tikka did limited runs of 1:8 22-250's but you're not going to see gunmakers en-masse make a wholesale change to fast-twist 22-250's.

Well that's a shame. I believe it makes more sense to perfect the stable than re-tool etc for obsolescence. Don't know why I have such an affinity with the .17 Rem. Still confused why they didn't tweak it and become a major competitor to the HMR: Reload capable, reduced charges, increased charges, better bullets...

 

[SDMF]

Well that's a shame. I believe it makes more sense to perfect the stable than re-tool etc for obsolescence. Don't know why I have such an affinity with the .17 Rem. Still confused why they didn't tweak it and become a major competitor to the HMR: Reload capable, reduced charges, increased charges, better bullets...

HMR succeeded by NOT being a reloadable cartridge. $8.99-$12.99/box of 50 upon launch = "Why would I Reload?" as well as significantly quieter.

From a pure FPS/noise standpoint, the .17 Hornet could've been "That Competitor" to the HMR but the cost for ammo was ~2X the HMR, the magazine only held 6, the rifles so chambered were significantly more expensive as well as far fewer choices, and if hand loading, 17's in all iterations are a pain in the rear, it's easy to fold over a neck if you're not slow and careful getting a bullet seated and you need a new flimsy cleaning rod as well as patches that don't work for anything else. Loading .17's requires the patience of Job.

.224 cases, projectiles, barrels, twist rates, and multitude of rifle choices are what they are because there's so many of them from the factory. .22 Hornet, .218 Bee, .219 Zipper, 220 Swift, 220 Rocket, .221 Fireball, 222Rem, 222 mag, 223Rem, 224 Weatherby, 22-250Rem all in multiple rifles from multiple manufacturers. Toss in another dozen + wildcats and it's easy to see why .224's outpace the sales of everything narrower than they are.

In CFR .172 land you've got Remington, Ruger, Marlin/Savage, and Sako and that's about it.

 

[Migrator Man]

They need to quit making AR-15 in 5.56, tactical shotguns, and 9mm black pistols. The market is flooded with all of those boring guns. They need to start producing some cool guns not all this junk. Same goes for ammo, shelves are full of over priced.223/ 5.56, haven’t seen a round or brass of 300 WSM is almost 2 years…..

 

[bucksnbears]

I'd like to see GOOD Woodstocked gun again on the shelves.
This plastic stuff is getting old!

 

[svnmag]

https://youtu.be/OxHWImyWBKM

 

[Rut2much]

They need to quit making AR-15 in 5.56, tactical shotguns, and 9mm black pistols. The market is flooded with all of those boring guns. They need to start producing some cool guns not all this junk. Same goes for ammo, shelves are full of over priced.223/ 5.56, haven’t seen a round or brass of 300 WSM is almost 2 years…..

Thankths biden.

 

[db-2]

bucks:

I was at scheels in Bismarck this past week.
Most of the guns there were plastic AR style guns. A ton of 223 ammo and not one box of 22-250 to be found let alone some others that are old that i need.
Do not own a 223 of any type but have a 222 mag and 98 live bullets for it. They would only last a few minutes in an AR but a life time in my bolt action. Got my fill of AR while in the army. (yes, they do work fine when one once to fill the air with lead as what they were meant for, deer do not shoot back)

I understand wood gets bang up but i think i might have one rifle without a wood stock. No, i just look and they are all wood. (Maybe a couple just look like wood, not sure what they are made of). My AR is a M-1 and would only be used for what it was meant for and i pray that never happens.

After 10 minutes left. Old school and that works fine for me. db

 

[Kurtr]

Manners or McMillan any day over wood. More options and less variables. I prefer the look of composite over wood also.

 

[Migrator Man]

I’d like to get a Weatherby Backcountry in 6.5 RPM . Carbon fiber stock with a muzzle break. The RPM uses their lighter action so it saves a pound. But finding ammo or brass is nearly impossible ……

 

[Kurtr]

I’d like to get a Weatherby Backcountry in 6.5 RPM . Carbon fiber stock with a muzzle break. The RPM uses their lighter action so it saves a pound. But finding ammo or brass is nearly impossible ……

could just a prc plenty of options of brass or ammo and guns. The 156 beregers make shit die.

 

[Migrator Man]

could just a prc plenty of options of brass or ammo and guns. The 156 beregers make shit die.

6.5 PRC is just as hard to find around here, like the weatherby build and features but they don’t chamber it in 6.5 PRC