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    1. Back To Top    #1
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      Good PBZ Reference

      SDMF had an excellent post a bit back concerning powder burn and turrets. Friend of mine is taking a .308 out to WY on a WT hunt and asked me how to sight it in without turrets. I gave him the standard 3in high at 100 which I believe to be true for all common deer calibers. Tooling around on the net and found this chart. I read a lot of Chuck Hawks but never read this. A bit ashamed to admit I didn't realize just how scant the benefit of a "candle stick" round compared to the established and classic.

      For example: 150grn 7Rem at 3110 has a whopping 18yd advantage over an '06 150grn at 2900. The list goes on and 3 high at 100 is correct in most cases. I'll not quibble over .3,.5 etc.

      Buddy's '08 will have a 275yd MPBR--3in low: Gravity sucks and will not be cheated. FPE becomes superfluous (PBZ). Sorry; no 6.5 Creedmore.

      That is all. Time for a can of ravioli and an egg sandwich:

      https://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_table.htm

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      Last edited by Mr. Stevenson; 03-07-2021 at 01:00 AM.

    2. Back To Top    #2
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      What scope? I HATE MPBR. It’s always a guess and guessing almost always equals incorrect assumptions that result in the critter trotting off after the shooter shoots over said critter.

      Guessing is stupid because we don’t have to guess anymore.

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      This has been like listening to Nancy Pelosi argue with Ozzy Osborne.

    3. Back To Top    #3
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      ^^^^Probably a 3X9 Tasco or Bushnell Walmart job at 1.5 above bore. IDK exactly but confident. He doesn't reload and is ethical.

      This is more than I considered sharing: I advised him to scope a .177 pellet rifle and shoot groups on windy days at 25yds with field positions.

      He has 4in high and low to work with.

      We have until October to sort this out.

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      Last edited by Mr. Stevenson; 03-07-2021 at 08:51 PM.

    4. Back To Top    #4
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      Snoring chick beside me....


      LOL, literally...only because I've been there.

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      "Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself." Mark Twain, speaking on Congress.

    5. Back To Top    #5
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      Wonder how many people realize that a lot of the common deer cartridges are within inches of each other out to about 400 yds. For me, I use a 4'X6' plywood and aim for the 6" diameter bullseye in the middle. Pretty easy to see the drop etc at a variety of ranges. Can also practice with some windage as well. One rule my dad always used was "If you have to hold above hair, it's too far." With my .270 he wasn't far from the truth although you can shoot further today with new bullets, powders, and scopes. Long range is possible but most don't practice enough to be effective or ethical.

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    6. Back To Top    #6
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      Will he be toting a LRF?

      Assuming:

      1. Variable power scope

      2. Second Focal Plane

      3. Duplex reticle

      For the most part with an honest to goodness 200yd zero, I mean, shooting paper @ 200 and being dead on, the scope turned up to the highest power, the intersection of the thick/thin portion of the reticle is going to offer a ~400 dead-on hold.

      Need to know which scope/reticle and a guy can hunt down actual sub tension values of the reticle and have a more accurate gauge for the duplex-intersection holdover range.

      I've seen way way way way way way way way way way more critters missed high vs. low. I cannot in good conscience suggest folks intentionally sighting-in a scope for more guessing.

      I like a "bottom 1/3rd" of the chest hold out to 225. As distance increases, slide up the body to a "top of back" hold @ 300. 350 = bottom of the chest w/duplex intersection. 400 = paste the intersection where you want the projectile to enter. 450 = duplex intersection @ top of the back.

      In a perfect world one runs the turret or, in the case of someone who refuses, at least has gravity pre-cyphered in the reticle taking gravity off the table. Then, waits for the critter to put it's backside into the wind, holds the upwind edge of the rib-cage and fires. In that scenario, more drift = more better essentially until one misses.

      - - - Updated - - -

      Quote Originally Posted by Retired Educator View Post
      One rule my dad always used was "If you have to hold above hair, it's too far." With my .270 he wasn't far from the truth although you can shoot further today with new bullets, powders, and scopes. Long range is possible but most don't practice enough to be effective or ethical.
      I wonder what your pops would say if I were to tell him that a pair of my 270's as currently configured and both zero'd for 200yds will allow me to "hold on hair" out to 1350yds and 1550yds?

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      This has been like listening to Nancy Pelosi argue with Ozzy Osborne.

    7. Back To Top    #7
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      ^^^^^ Yeah, when he told me that we were still using 2.5 power scopes and rangefinders were based on practice and experience. A 200 yd shot meant somewhere between 150 and 250 yds. I shot my first deer in 1963. Things have changed a bit. Long range shooting still requires more practice and knowledge than most hunters today take the time to actually become proficient in my view. Don't have a problem with long range shooting, just that everyone needs to know their limits.

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    8. Back To Top    #8
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      To be continued SD.

      - - - Updated - - -

      Also, do you know the FPE at those pokes?

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    9. Back To Top    #9
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      300 @ 1350 and 445 @ 1550. Different projectiles, much higher BC on #2.

      Lowest FPE I've hit a deer w/via 270Win is just under 1100 and it was a "Bang-Flop".

      Lowest FPE period was ~875 via 243AI/105 A-Max @ 730, another "Bang-Flop".

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      This has been like listening to Nancy Pelosi argue with Ozzy Osborne.

    10. Back To Top    #10
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      And...When I said "we" I didn't mean you and I but your involvement would be appreciated if you don't mind associating with plebes.

      - - - Updated - - -

      Quote Originally Posted by SDMF View Post
      300 @ 1350 and 445 @ 1550. Different projectiles, much higher BC on #2.

      Lowest FPE I've hit a deer w/via 270Win is just under 1100 and it was a "Bang-Flop".

      Lowest FPE period was ~875 via 243AI/105 A-Max @ 730, another "Bang-Flop".
      So do you subscribe to 500/deer, 1000/elk?

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      Last edited by Mr. Stevenson; 03-07-2021 at 09:47 PM.

    11. Back To Top    #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Stevenson View Post
      So do you subscribe to 500/deer, 1000/elk?
      I've never really thought about it. It takes a LONG shot for either of those numbers to be relevant. 300Win is 950 FPE @ 800yds.

      Flight time to 600 is ~.75 Sec. You add almost another 1/2 sec getting to 800. Too much time for the wind to act on the projectile and ENTIRELY too much time for the animal to move on it's own.

      I'm working with a higher BC projectile that'll get the bullet to 800 in under 1-sec, dunno if that'll actually increase the distance I'm comfortable shooting or not. Right now 600 is pretty much my self-imposed limit with "hunting" rifles. I have on occasion packed along the 243AI or 7WSM "play" rifles. 16# and 19# respectively. 1# and 8oz triggers. Lots of rounds of ammo through both, 243AI is over 1200, 7WSM is on it's 2nd bbl. 12-42x56 Nightforce w/good flawless tracking and good reticles for precise wind holds. Both set up on a good BR-style front rest and something stable in the rear. In that case, assuming I have an excellent read on the wind, I'd shoot further than 600.

      There are plenty of others who are more comfortable shooting further, no judgements, I just know what my limit is for big-game. Varmint's on the other hand, if I can see them, I'll happily fling away.

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      This has been like listening to Nancy Pelosi argue with Ozzy Osborne.

    12. Back To Top    #12
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      ^^^^Good stuff. I just remembered "we're" not shooting the 760Rem from high school. To be continued...I want this guy to be able to fondle a good rack for once in his life instead of his penis.

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      Last edited by Mr. Stevenson; 03-07-2021 at 11:17 PM.

    13. Back To Top    #13
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      Uncle has a 760 in 6MM Rem. Thing shoots STUPID good w/100gn blue box Federals.

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    14. Back To Top    #14
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      i had a 760 Rem chambered in 270 blow up in my face when I was 16, or so. Actually, it blew the action out the right side. Nonetheless, it was a scary experience.

      I no longer shoot pump rifles, or a 270.

      You all are talking ranges that I don't shoot at. I limit myself to about 500 with my 7mm and around 450 with my 25-06. If'n I can't get closer than that, I ain't hunting, I'm just shooting.

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      "Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself." Mark Twain, speaking on Congress.

    15. Back To Top    #15
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      We'll be dealing with a Nikon Pro Staff 3X9, standard duplex and 150grn factory rds. (higher end--not blue box etc)

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    16. Back To Top    #16
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      Piece of cake. Cypher the ammo and it's a couple clicks away from done on the info side. Just need to implement an honest to goodness reliable zero and thorough practice regimen.

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    17. Back To Top    #17
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      So...200yd zero and bottom post hold out to 400?...(all things considered?)

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    18. Back To Top    #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Stevenson View Post
      So...200yd zero and bottom post hold out to 400?...(all things considered?)
      Give or take that's probably close. Without getting deep in the weeds you're going to need that cross-to-post distance to be 4.5-6MOA @ the highest power and it'll be a 400yd hold with easy bracketing in-between.

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    19. Back To Top    #19
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      Will keep you advised.

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    20. Back To Top    #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Stevenson View Post
      So...200yd zero and bottom post hold out to 400?...(all things considered?)
      http://spoton.nikonsportoptics.com/s...poton.html#:14

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