Build a root cellar?

[Lycanthrope]

Good midwinter topic to toss around. Curious who owns, has built, or is knowledgeable enough about construction to advise on building a walk in, underground root cellar.

Originally i was tossing around the idea of burying one of the 20ft storage containers, but after reading a bit, doesnt sound like the best idea... Considering alternatives now.

Id like to build into the side of a gently sloping hill instead of digging down and building/pouring steps etc. Need at least 2ft of dirt over top to protect from frost.

Easiest way I think would be to level off the top and excavate a trench, mabye 12" wide around the perimeter, Reinforce that with vertical rebar and pour concrete using the dirt as forms essentially. Not sure best way to remove dirt down 8 - 9ft or so but only 1ft wide.... After concrete cures pour the top and then use a skidder to remove dirt from inside of the structure. Put a few inches of gravel or crushed rock for a floor.

Im assuming a roof on something like that would need some structural steel built in because wet dirt can get heavy fairly quickly...

Overall dimensions Im thinking maybe 10ft wide by 20ft deep with 7-8ft ceiling.

Here is a site with some ideas to get your juices flowing...

https://morningchores.com/root-cellars/

 

[BP338]

I did the same thing, I looked at storage containers and they don't bury well. I feel like concrete is the best/safest option. My property is somewhat on a hill and the back would be perfect to build into. When I was researching it, looks like you'd have to get the structure engineered. I've seen where they bury culverts as well. Those are designed to withstand some weight.

Note, when I was looking, I was thinking more bomb shelter type. Not that I'm paranoid, I just think that it would be freaking cool to have something like that for a literal man-cave!

 

[lunkerslayer]

Lots of YouTube videos on the same subject but look for underground bunkers.

 

[guywhofishes]

I'd pass on concrete. It's a cellar - not a bomb shelter.

I'd go old school and build it out of local rockpiles, cinder block, etc. Wouldn't take long for a guy to get the hang of it and enjoy the process. So what if it takes you two years - working on it when you feel like it. It doesn't have to last you 100 years.

https://thelibrary.org/lochist/periodicals/bittersweet/sp78h.htm

 

[JayKay]

My in-laws have one on the farm, made of dirt (with a concrete floor). It's only lasted about 40 years so far. Another 15, and my father-in-law sure won't care.

The basement under their house was dirt too, for a long time. Eventually, about 8 or 10 years ago, they built a wood basement with concrete floor, under the house - without removing the house.

That was actually kind a fun process.

 

[BP338]

I'd pass on concrete. It's a cellar - not a bomb shelter.

I'd go old school and build it out of local rockpiles, cinder block, etc. Wouldn't take long for a guy to get the hang of it and enjoy the process. So what if it takes you two years - working on it when you feel like it. It doesn't have to last you 100 years.

https://thelibrary.org/lochist/periodicals/bittersweet/sp78h.htm

Don't contradict me! It will be way cooler to have a bomb shelter for a root cellar/man cave/dog house! Just admit it!

 

[Lycanthrope]

I'd pass on concrete. It's a cellar - not a bomb shelter.

I'd go old school and build it out of local rockpiles, cinder block, etc. Wouldn't take long for a guy to get the hang of it and enjoy the process. So what if it takes you two years - working on it when you feel like it. It doesn't have to last you 100 years.

https://thelibrary.org/lochist/periodicals/bittersweet/sp78h.htm

How would you do the ceiling then? Cinderblock more or less $ than poured?

 

[MuskyManiac]

I have one in my house. It's underneath the front patio on the outside of my house. I access it from the basement. Sure stays nice and cool in there. It's neat.

 

[guywhofishes]

How would you do the ceiling then? Cinderblock more or less $ than poured?

treated beams? not sure How did they do them “back in the day”?

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I was just brainstorming what would be frugal, what a guy could do himself, etc.

 

[Lycanthrope]

treated beams? not sure How did they do them “back in the day”?

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I was just brainstorming what would be frugal, what a guy could do himself, etc.

I think most root cellars, at least ones ive been in, were significantly smaller than what Im considering. I dont know exactly how the roof was constructed, but it was wooden, I think the last one I was in was maybe 4'x8', enough room for some food is all. Could maybe make a roof out of 2x material, plywood and with some sort of water/vapor barrier over the top before adding dirt again... poured would be a lot stronger Im sure tho.

 

[guywhofishes]

I think most root cellars, at least ones ive been in, were significantly smaller than what Im considering. I dont know exactly how the roof was constructed, but it was wooden, I think the last one I was in was maybe 4'x8', enough room for some food is all. Could maybe make a roof out of 2x material, plywood and with some sort of water/vapor barrier over the top before adding dirt again... poured would be a lot stronger Im sure tho.

it could be a conventional peaked roof sitting on the ground (top of walls) - spray foamed - light color steel roofing

 

[Lycanthrope]

it could be a conventional peaked roof sitting on the ground (top of walls) - spray foamed - light color steel roofing

That wont stop the radiation from a crazy sunflare or nuclear attack!

 

[Obi-Wan]

The former owner of my place had built one out of old telephone poles that he cribbed for the walls and used on the ceilings. the whole thing was covered with dirt except for a door coming out the side of the hill. I am not sure when he built it but he lived at the place from 62 until 08. I didn't use it so I burned it and buried the hole.

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I have one in my house. It's underneath the front patio on the outside of my house. I access it from the basement. Sure stays nice and cool in there. It's neat.

My inlaws house in central Bismarck built in the 50s has one on the front of their house up to the city sidewalk. It has concrete walls and roof and they also enter it from the basement. Theirs has a vent out the top for what I assume is fresh air.

 

[Davey Crockett]

We have a fieldstone basement under the old house I grew up in, I'm guessing it's about 20x 20 with an outside covered chute and stairs steps in the house. It's the only thing that has kept me from tearing the old house down, I want to preserve that basement some how. All I know about it is that it was built before 1910 and it is still in very good condition and has never been repaired to my knowledge. One corner has a small "fruit room" is what we called it where all the canned goods and root vegetables and homemade wine was stored. I have two theories why ours was called the fruit room , One is because they bought fruit by the case and canned back then or it could have been because of the wine that was being made in there.
On the western edge of the Turtle mountains is an incredible old small underground stone cave with an arched ceiling, Makes a person wonder how they were actually built, the construction is designed so the weight of the rocks interlock are loadbearing without any bonding agent. If I remember right it is holding up couple feet of dirt and not a distinct mound over the top, Like you could walk past it and never notice it. No idea how old that one is but it's ancient and close to where the mooring rocks are, I have pictures of that cave somewhere. Fieldstone looks easy enough to do if you have a strong back and time.

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I don't know if it's my imagination but to me the fruit room still has this odd sweet smell to it after all these years.

 

[Lycanthrope]

We have a fieldstone basement under the old house I grew up in, I'm guessing it's about 20x 20 with an outside covered chute and stairs steps in the house. It's the only thing that has kept me from tearing the old house down, I want to preserve that basement some how. All I know about it is that it was built before 1910 and it is still in very good condition and has never been repaired to my knowledge. One corner has a small "fruit room" is what we called it where all the canned goods and root vegetables and homemade wine was stored. I have two theories why ours was called the fruit room , One is because they bought fruit by the case and canned back then or it could have been because of the wine that was being made in there.
On the western edge of the Turtle mountains is an incredible old small underground stone cave with an arched ceiling, Makes a person wonder how they were actually built, the construction is designed so the weight of the rocks interlock are loadbearing without any bonding agent. If I remember right it is holding up couple feet of dirt and not a distinct mound over the top, Like you could walk past it and never notice it. No idea how old that one is but it's ancient and close to where the mooring rocks are, I have pictures of that cave somewhere. Fieldstone looks easy enough to do if you have a strong back and time.

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I don't know if it's my imagination but to me the fruit room still has this odd sweet smell to it after all these years.

Is there special venting in the 'fruit room'? Ripening fruit produce ethylene gas that needs to be vented out or it will cause other items to spoil faster. Could have been to isolate fruit from carrots/potatoes etc....

 

[Davey Crockett]

Is there special venting in the 'fruit room'? Ripening fruit produce ethylene gas that needs to be vented out or it will cause other items to spoil faster. Could have been to isolate fruit from carrots/potatoes etc....

Yes there are two very small windows in the basement and one of them is in the fruit room.

 

[BP338]

That wont stop the radiation from a crazy sunflare or nuclear attack!

Go big or go home! I heard with the new space force, we just made contact with the vulcans!

 

[KDM]

Good thread!! Most people think of digging when it comes to a root cellar, but in fact all one is looking for is the insulation properties of soil to preserve foods. There are lots of locations around the world where the water table is to high to dig much of anything or it's just rock so they use above ground root cellars. I've seen everything from dumpsters or shipping containers covered with 2 ft of soil to elaborate concrete structures with lights and power. The main idea is to put up the structure and then add enough soil around it to provide the desired effect. If it were me doing one, I'd look at a bi-level kind of deal where the cellar was half above ground and half below. The below ground would provide access to the temperature moderating abilities of the ground, while the above ground portion would allow ventilation, power access, and convenience. I'd have concrete footings, walls, and ceiling, but the main floor would be dirt to allow moisture and thermal regulation directly with the earth. I think 3ft of dirt surrounding the whole above ground structure would be plenty, but I would check into the specifics of your soils. Think "Hobbit Hole" from lord of the rings, but only with a square door. LOL!! Good Luck!!!

 

[Obi-Wan]

Good thread!! Most people think of digging when it comes to a root cellar, but in fact all one is looking for is the insulation properties of soil to preserve foods. There are lots of locations around the world where the water table is to high to dig much of anything or it's just rock so they use above ground root cellars. I've seen everything from dumpsters or shipping containers covered with 2 ft of soil to elaborate concrete structures with lights and power. The main idea is to put up the structure and then add enough soil around it to provide the desired effect. If it were me doing one, I'd look at a bi-level kind of deal where the cellar was half above ground and half below. The below ground would provide access to the temperature moderating abilities of the ground, while the above ground portion would allow ventilation, power access, and convenience. I'd have concrete footings, walls, and ceiling, but the main floor would be dirt to allow moisture and thermal regulation directly with the earth. I think 3ft of dirt surrounding the whole above ground structure would be plenty, but I would check into the specifics of your soils. Think "Hobbit Hole" from lord of the rings, but only with a square door. LOL!! Good Luck!!!

Not sure if the 2' to 3' of soil covering above ground would be enough to keep interior from freezing.

 

[KDM]

Not sure if the 2' to 3' of soil covering above ground would be enough to keep interior from freezing.

Might not be. It depends on the soil characteristics and every location is different. My neighbor has a BEAUTIFUL root cellar (10X12) that comes out from his foundation that has 8ft concrete walls, concrete ceiling, a dirt floor, and only a foot or two of dirt on top and his doesn't freeze. I'm a bit "green" every time I see it. Seeing him grab FRESH carrots out of the sand beds in his root cellar in February makes me want to cry sometimes.