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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tim Sandstrom" data-source="post: 105933" data-attributes="member: 1108">Here's an email I sent Larry Janis at the ACOE.  My intent (oh boy there's that word intent again...gassssssp!) is to understand how the ACOE plays words of "excess" versus "no longer needed".  Keep in mind, my focus at this time was for Sakakawea.  But obviously, Oahe is the same project and same type of lands.The answer given is rather open ended and well, hard to comprehend.  So I asked for more clarification by quoting the Master Plan which is in essence the Master Manual.  Which in essence again is the Pick Sloan Act.  Which all were upheld in this court case:  <a href="http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-8th-circuit/1158589.html" target="_blank">http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-8th-circuit/1158589.html</a>-------------------From Larry to Tim:Tim,Todd Lindquist mentioned that you had requested an explanation of the difference between excess lands and lands no longer needed for the construction, maintenance, or operation of the Garrison Project.  Below is how I would explain it:Excess lands are identified by comparing the lands originally acquired for the project against the lands that would be now acquired using the current acquisition criteria. The criterion outlined in Appendix E of Engineering Regulation 1130-2-540 provides the detailed guidance for determining which lands identified are excess.  Lands no longer needed for the project are determined by comparing existing lands against those lands needed to operate and maintain the project.  In this case vegetative management lands were determined to be no longer needed, while lands essential for recreation, wildlife management, flood control and navigation would be retained.Hope this explanation helps.  If you have any additional questions please let me know.-------------------------------From Tim to Larry:Hi Larry and others:Larry, thank you for the response.  I have a few follow up comments/questions.1.  Do project purposes not equate into "current acquisition criteria?" Can you or someone please send me the Appendix E of Engineering Regulation 1130-2-540?2.  Attached is a PDF.  It is from the 2007 Master Plan/EA study for the Garrison Project.  I want you to focus on Management Unit (MU) 69 and 71 of the map.  Notice the tan color is wildlife management.  Also notice green is vegetation management. Below is text taken from the Master Plan separated by alphabetical bullets to help organize questions and answers to follow:a.  On page 7-107 discussing recreation activities for vegetative management MU 069 it is noted hunting as a primary recreation activity.  Hiking, camping, photography and off-road vehicle use are listed as other common recreational activities.  Resource objectives on pages 7-108 thru 7-109 include (but not limited to) balance wild land values and public uses, promote access that minimizes adverse impacts on vegetation and wildlife, maintain quality in concert with recreation, fish and wildlife, develop and manage levels of recreation activities, promote ecological integrity by controlling noxious weeds and maintain and/or improve wildlife habitat.  These are all items consistent with 1.7 of the Master Plan project-wide resource objectives specifically including manage habitat for threatened and endangered species and to support diversity of fish and wildlife species.  How does this compare to MU 71 land classification of wildlife management?  Let’s compare directly below...b.  On page 7-127 discussing recreation activities for wildlife management MU 071 it is noted hunting is a primary recreation activity followed by boating and fishing.  On pages 7-127 thru 7-128 resource objectives are (but not limited to) balance wild land values and public uses, promote access that minimizes adverse impacts on vegetation and wildlife, maintain quality in concert with recreation, fish and wildlife, develop and manage levels of recreation activities, promote ecological integrity by controlling noxious weeds and maintain and/or improve wildlife habitat.  Again, these items are consistent with 1.7 Master Plan project-wide resource objectives.  So how do MU 069 and MU 071 differ from one another?c.  Under 1.4.6 Fish and Wildlife of the Master Manual it specifically states vegetation management is a classified area developed and managed to benefit wildlife.  Furthermore, "remaining project lands" are also managed to enhance and benefit wildlife species.  Since wildlife management is a project purpose how does the ACOE decide vegetation management lands are no longer needed?d.  Does the ACOE not see erosion as an issue?  Per 1.4.8 Water Quality is directly dependent upon silt control, soil-erosion prevention, pollution abatement to provide adequate and safe municipal water, improved clarity of water for recreation, improved clarity of water for fish and wildlife, stock watering and other water supply use.  Would you agree lands classified as vegetative management are crucial to meeting project needs?e.  In section 2.1.3 Project Lands recreation activities include (but are not limited to) hunting, camping, picnicking, hiking, mountain biking, horseback riding, bird watching, wildlife observation, interpretive activities, photography, winter sports and sightseeing.  Furthermore, Recreation.gov highlights recreation activities as autotouring, biking, boating, camping, climbing, educational programs, fish hatcheries, fishing, hiking, historic/cultural sites, horseback riding, hunting, lodging, museum/visitor, off-highway vehicle access, recreational vehicles, water sports, wildlife viewing and winter sports.  Would you agree these activities take place on all project lands and specifically vegetative management lands? f.  Section 2.11.2 states "wildlife-associated recreation activities are important at the Lake Sakakawea project and in North Dakota."  In section 2.11.3 the Master Plan further quotes hunting of big game using firearms or archery is an important fall recreation activity on project lands.  The ACOE agrees hunting activity follows state trends of increasing each year and at the time of the master plan & EA the ACOE quotes North Dakota is the fifth-highest among 50 states in regard to hunting participation.  Would you agree the vegetative management lands as directed by the Master Plan are bound to project purposes of recreation and wildlife?g.  In section 5.3.5.1 multiple resource management notes lands in vegetation management are permitted for a variety of purposes including erosion control, retention and improvement of scenic qualities and wildlife management.  Would you agree vegetative lands are considered multi-purpose lands that again meet project purposes?h.  Recreation is a key project purpose.  Recreation is dynamic and not static meaning recreation activities can and must grow to meet the need.    Master Plans are revisited to better classify lands and if transferred they will forever be removed from availability.  Many vegetative management lands have the same potential recreation value (and in some cases more value) as any other acre within the project.  If vegetative management lands are removed from the project, would you agree removing vegetative lands removes the ability to provide additional recreation opportunity?To borrow words and sentences from the conclusion section of the Master Plan, the vegetative management activities are very important in all areas of the project, regardless of their land classification.  They are multiple resource management lands that meet many if not every single project purpose as directed by the Pick Sloan Act.  Vegetative management areas are monitored and grazing activities regulated to prevent overgrazing important for the quality of vegetation for wildlife habitat.   Finally, collaborate efforts cited in section 8-1 and 8-2 highlight wildlife management are codependent upon vegetative management areas.With the above, I find it impossible and unimaginable to distinguish excess versus no longer needed nor can I understand wildlife management areas separate from vegetative management areas.  I used MU 069 and MU 071 as example because I grew up there.  I've stood at the line separating the two MUs looking at identical terrain, habitat and recreation offering.  Like excess versus no longer needed the ACOE is trying to justify a distinction without difference.I look forward to your response on how vegetative management lands can be seen as no longer needed when they are bound in so many ways to the multi project purposes of recreation, fish and wildlife, water quality, municipal and industrial water supply, irrigation, navigation, hydropower and flood control.Best Regards,Tim Sandstrom----------------I am waiting response to my latest email.</blockquote>

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