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Message: <blockquote data-quote="gst" data-source="post: 176882" data-attributes="member: 373">Holy the hate runs deep in this one.- - - Updated - - -First of all one has to understand what these payments are actually for the EWG doesn;t really break that down accurately but then that whole Environmental Working Group has a bit of a problem when it comes to not letting agenda drive their information they post. We haven;t had a true "subsidy" program in a while like there was back in the day when Dorgan and Conrad bragged about bringing home the bacon. Now all the acronyms are hard to keep track of, but a fair bit of payments come from conservation programs. How long could most survive? Depends on debt load, diversification, off farm income.....there would likely be a pretty hard curve. Food costs would likely go up. History has proven nations without a secure food supply that is affordable have not been overly successful in many other areas of economic development which leads to a higher percentage of disposable income spent on food, as well as many experiencing civil unrest and eventually overthrow of govts. becasue of a hungry people, most recently was Egypt. This nation decided after WW1 to begin creating a food security program and it has grown every since. So food costs here as compared to disposable income without these programs would likely be similar ot other developed nations. When you are spending 20% of ones disposable income on food, how much is left for investment or purchases to drive an economy? Think of how that snowballs to impact economic stability. As to what I would personally prefer, I would prefer no subsidies at all from an operating stand point, but understand the value of them to this nations security so it is not a cut and dried deal for me. I beleive in a free market system but out trading system of futures and markets where traders can manipulate pricing and drive markets pretty much prevents that any more. We have taken our operation out of some govt programs because of how they were ran. We were not in any govt programs until the early 80's when we had to go to a bank to borrow monies to buy some land. They required participation. And the answer to your last question is none. ;:;banghead- - - Updated - - -So the farmer builds a house because of ag program payments. Who built the house, where did the supplies come from, who wired it, who did the plumbing, who covers it with insurance, who supplies and installs the carpet........do you begin to see where these payments end up plainsman? How about if someone keeps the  cost of your food under 10% of your disposable income so you can afford a house payment with the other 90% plains? Are you claiming all of the milk consumed in ND comes from ND and none is imported? http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/25/drop-in-north-dakota-dairy-farms-discouraging-to-m/[FONT=&quot]BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) - A drop in the number of North Dakota dairy farms - from 350 in 2000 to 91 today - has led to scrutiny of a state law that allows only family members to form farming corporations.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]One milk processing facility in central North Dakota has been operating at a 600-cow-a-day deficit, forcing it to import milk into the state.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]“When operations have to start doing that, plants start closing doors,” Goehring said. “We don’t have enough cows in central North Dakota anymore.”[/FONT]Anyways it is interesting how the same folks always seem to steer these conversations to ag programs..even if they really don;t know what they are talking about.</blockquote>

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