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Message: <blockquote data-quote="PrairieGhost" data-source="post: 177139" data-attributes="member: 704">Kurtr Wrote: I agree with both of you.  I think your both on the same page with only a slightly different view.  Personally I don't trust either side.    This statement really hit home  for me.  I have watched for 50 years the ranchers trying to get the land under one scheme or another.  So today I don't trust them.  The more they talk the less I trust them.  The Oregon thing and the Bundy's confirm my distrust.  That also is true and I can understand why that builds mistrust with ranchers.  The same is true for both sides.  Both sides have some good people, but when a few from each group wants to exclude the others we all mistrust each other.  For many years the west has been overgrazed.  When the order comes down to better manage the land federal agencies reduce the grazing rate.  That's the responsible thing to do, but then some ranchers will say they are not allowing them to graze.  I know that isn't true so there goes trust.  Reduction in grazing capacity isn't the same thing as not allowing them to graze.We all see the liberals say that the conservatives are cutting the budget on X which is their pet thing, when in truth they are only cutting the increase.  I always thought this was a liberal thing, but ranchers do the same when they say they are being kicked off the land.  I will just throw some numbers out, not real so don't anyone jump on this.  Lets say that a current grazing allotment is set at 30 acres per animal unit month (AUM).  Random sampling of the pasture shows it's being over grazed so the agency sets the grazing capacity at 40 acres per AUM until it recovers.  So the rancher can put 25% fewer cattle on his grazing allotment for an unknown duration of time.  He goes to the public and says he is being pushed out incrementally when in fact that is not true. I wish everyone had the attitude you two have on this perhaps we could get somewhere.  I remember when the Sierra Club and ranchers both testified at the last meetings I attended on grazing plans for the grasslands.  I kept thinking to myself leave things as they are because I didn't like either plan.  If it isn't broke don't fix it.  Like I have said many times individuals are ok, but organizations have no soul or conscience.  They are one track minded.  I dislike some of the restrictive things coming from those who would protect our public land, but I also dislike some of the get every penny you can from the land from some ranch organizations.  Are there people hiding behind false fronts?  Of course.  For me it's those who measure all value by the dollar hiding behind organizations like the American Land Council.  Ranchers will not believe a word that comes out of the mouth of Backwoods Hunters and Anglers and none of their members will believe a word that cones from American Land Council.  I don't know what the solution is.</blockquote>

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