Unions

[Fester]

If you have ever poured curb and gutter by hand you know their well being isnt taken into account.

Lol..I would guess the employee would rather do that though then be unemployed..

 

[wslayer]

Lol..I would guess the employee would rather do that though then be unemployed..

These days, that's questionable but know what ya mean !

 

[tikkalover]

Depends on what the unemployed get from the government now days?

 

[johnr]

Depends on what the unemployed get from the government now days?

Here in lies the big problem. No one should ever qualify for benefits that replace the need to work.
Benefits should be just enough to not starve, and very little more. For sure not cell phones, internet, and smokes.

 

[SDMF]

In Oregon they banned self serve gas to create jobs for people to pump gas…

NJ used to have that too, not sure if they still do.

The companies and news organizations want to bash these unions but I don't think people understand when the contract is up with the union they can be replaced by anything and anyone..so another words these companies could replace ALL workers with all the automation they want..there is no contract therefore there is nothing holding each party to having to work...the company can lock out the worker and the worker by not agreeeing to a contract is no longer employed...yet the companies choose not to replace..why is that?

One would think there's certainly room to phase in automation of the most dangerous jobs while also phasing in training for those folks to perform security analysis on a higher percentage of the freight coming in. There must be a few of those workers who are excellent "tailgaiters" at sporting events or the like. Put up a dozen food-trucks and turn them loose, use some of the cost savings/avoidance automations brings and make the ports like a tech-company campus where the food and coffee are part of the benefit of working there.

That took me about 3 min worth of reading to come up with. Beyond the "big picture" view of how ports work, I don't know diddly-squat about the goings-on. I bet there are people who know the inner workings of a port that could propose dozens of jobs that would retain employees while also making the ports faster and safer.

 

[Fester]

NJ used to have that too, not sure if they still do.


One would think there's certainly room to phase in automation of the most dangerous jobs while also phasing in training for those folks to perform security analysis on a higher percentage of the freight coming in. There must be a few of those workers who are excellent "tailgaiters" at sporting events or the like. Put up a dozen food-trucks and turn them loose, use some of the cost savings/avoidance automations brings and make the ports like a tech-company campus where the food and coffee are part of the benefit of working there.

That took me about 3 min worth of reading to come up with. Beyond the "big picture" view of how ports work, I don't know diddly-squat about the goings-on. I bet there are people who know the inner workings of a port that could propose dozens of jobs that would retain employees while also making the ports faster and safer.

Sure..still doesn't answer why a company that is so against unions and or it's employees just doesn't lock them out and bring in automation like they want. Why even negotiate? Just bring in the automation at the end of the contract. There are also plenty of dangerous jobs around..my guess is if you ask those employees doing the job most would rather keep the job then be unemployed.

 

[sdietrich]

Probably get roasted for this but I am personally not a fan of unions. They, at one time did have their place. Government regulations pretty much control what unions set out to do. To what extent, good or bad can be debated. I believe I have the power to seek employment that satisfies my pursuit of happiness and it is not the job of my employer to make me happy. Job sucks? Find one that doesn’t.
However my father was in a union while working as a journeyman lineman. He hated it. His disgust was the union sticking up for people who were also union members who were, in his words completely worthless and getting paid the same. In his view people would make jobs take longer than it should, not show up on time and or not show up for days at a time with little to no repercussions. Meanwhile affecting customer outcomes and utility rates.
One place I believe unions should not be, without a doubt is government jobs. As I am not a fan of Roosevelt, he addressed unions in the public sector and knew the chaos they would cause. Basically it is immoral to hold the taxpayer hostage.

https://nationalcenter.org/ncppr/20...r-opposing-public-employee-government-unions/

 

[lunkerslayer]

The issue with unions is that some unions like the railroad can be forced by the government to go back to work without any negotiations, some states have made it illegal for teachers to go on strike another strong arm approach. Too much government interference especially when the government is the one paying your wages they pretty can do what they want.
I believe the unions strong arm tactics in the 80s and the government lowering tarrifs is the reason why many industries went overseas to build their products.

 

[SDMF]

Sure..still doesn't answer why a company that is so against unions and or it's employees just doesn't lock them out and bring in automation like they want. Why even negotiate? Just bring in the automation at the end of the contract. There are also plenty of dangerous jobs around..my guess is if you ask those employees doing the job most would rather keep the job then be unemployed.

Moving to automation isn't a "light-switch" transition. Automation of ports is going to be a situation very much like building a plane while you're flying it. The port has to continue to operate and upgrade @ the same time.

If the Longshoreman's union had a leader that was 180 degrees opposed to their current leader. A person who embraced and welcomed automation, I don't know, but, I suspect it'd still take 2-3 6yr contract cycles to do things right.

That current Longshoreman union leader telling the world he's going to shut down the E and Golf-coast ports unless his demands 100% against automation are met makes him the guy that "America Loves to Hate.". What if that guy was on TV saying:

"We're going to automate the ports on a safe schedule. Along the way, we're also going to be steadily increasing the human security presence screening incoming cargo." "Additionally, we're going to lower freight transit times."

He'd be taking a position that even the most staunch union detractor would have a hard time arguing against.

It took me longer to write the above than it did to conceptualize the ideas. There's plenty of people with a deeper understanding of port operations who could write an exponentially more compelling story of cooperation rather than obstruction.

 

[Fester]

Sure they have plenty of time to get things rolling why the contract is active, as soon as the contract is over they could "flip the light switch"..took me very little to conceptualize that. All sides have an agenda and there is more to it then you realize...bot getting into what that is but yes it really is easy to automate if the wanted to.

 

[SDMF]

Sure they have plenty of time to get things rolling why the contract is active, as soon as the contract is over they could "flip the light switch"..took me very little to conceptualize that. All sides have an agenda and there is more to it then you realize...bot getting into what that is but yes it really is easy to automate if the wanted to.

I've never worked on updating/upgrading a port, but, if all the work stopped and all they had to do was upgrades it's got to be 2-3yrs worth of infrastructure and programming and double to triple that amount of time if they're doing it while still trying to operate.

You've got infrastructure to install just to control the machines and then more infrastructure to ensure connectivity and redundancy of same. Then there's the workflow efficiency modeling, safety measures, handoff to live-body implementations, etc, etc, etc.

How would this sound from the president of the Longshoremen:

"Over the next 2 6yr contract cycles we're going to embrace automation. We will do so at a pace that allows current workers to transition into higher-paying jobs that improve safety and security not only at the ports, but, nationwide."

 

[Fester]

It can be done..blaming it on your employees isn't going to solve anything.