Vortex or Leupold

[CAH]

Barska or bust....

 

[SDMF]

This is IMO the best “bang for the buck” riflescope of this cyber week. This is the same scope as the original Zeiss Conquest that sold for $900 6-7yrs ago.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/CABELAS-INSTINCT-CUSTOM-TURRET-SCOPE/2347383.uts?slotId=0

 

[Account Deleted]

I don't have a low enough gear in my brain to buy Vortex anything.

I have to ask because you’re the only person I’ve ever heard that flat out says they won’t use them. Plenty that have been indifferent, but that’s another matter. What’s your beef with Vortex?

 

[SDMF]

I have to ask because you’re the only person I’ve ever heard that flat out says they won’t use them. Plenty that have been indifferent, but that’s another matter. What’s your beef with Vortex?

I'm not into spending 3x-5x what something is actually worth just to have an over the counter warrantee. Their whole brand was built on:

"We'll just hand you another over the counter today no questions asked if there's a problem."

Nobody can afford an over the counter warrantee unless they're significantly overcharging you the 1st time. Retailers love Vortex because margins are great and Vortex does a shit-ton of advertising. Salespeople love to sell Vortex because they have lucrative sales contests/spiffs that provide free product to the salespeople. Gunwriters dote on Vortex for the same reason, free shit.

It's not a large sample and it was very early in the launch of the Vortex line, but, the 1st 3 people I knew that owned Vortex all had troubles with them. They got replaced no questions asked, but, I'd rather not deal with that.

I certainly haven't owned every brand/model of riflescope available, but, I've owned an awful lot of them, I like to think I know what I need, what I don't, and how to find it.

 

[Allen]

Kurt hit it fairly accurately.

The big glass manufacturers all tend to use glass with about 85-92% light transmission. Meaning, 85-92% of the light that hits the front lens makes it back to your eyeball. The difference really comes in coatings that literally block certain wavelengths of light. The theory here is that if you block a certain wavelength of light, the missing wavelength(s) result in a crisper definition in your perception.

The hitch in the giddy-up here is that no two human eyeballs are the same. What results in a better image to me may very well be the absolute worst for you. So Leupold, Nikon, etc are all using what they consider to be the best data on the human eyeball and in that sense it's a numbers game. One company is targeting a customer base that benefits the most from the blocking of XX suite of the white light spectrum, and the next targets a slightly different set of wavelengths.

So there really is NO best optic. The coatings that block a set of light wavelengths are available to all optic manufacturers. Sure, there can be differences in how they each apply coatings, and the resulting product. So this makes tiers of optics manufacturers, but no clear winner.

I worked with very high end optics for a few years and this stuff was important enough for me to really read up on it. For quite a long time, Nikon had by far the most light transmittance glass out there. But even then their coatings weren't for everyone.

 

[SDMF]

I worked with very high end optics for a few years and this stuff was important enough for me to really read up on it. For quite a long time, Nikon had by far the most light transmittance glass out there. But even then there coatings weren't for everyone.

Do you think that in terms of pure resolution (not brightness) current glass is as good or better than the leaded crystal that can no longer be produced?

 

[AR-15]

Anybody ever try a Thermal Imaging scope?

 

[Kurtr]

I'm not into spending 3x-5x what something is actually worth just to have an over the counter warrantee. Their whole brand was built on:

"We'll just hand you another over the counter today no questions asked if there's a problem."

Nobody can afford an over the counter warrantee unless they're significantly overcharging you the 1st time. Retailers love Vortex because margins are great and Vortex does a shit-ton of advertising. Salespeople love to sell Vortex because they have lucrative sales contests/spiffs that provide free product to the salespeople. Gunwriters dote on Vortex for the same reason, free shit.

It's not a large sample and it was very early in the launch of the Vortex line, but, the 1st 3 people I knew that owned Vortex all had troubles with them. They got replaced no questions asked, but, I'd rather not deal with that.

I certainly haven't owned every brand/model of riflescope available, but, I've owned an awful lot of them, I like to think I know what I need, what I don't, and how to find it.

Let's be honest here switch out Leupold for where you put vortex it is the same. At this point every manufacturer has pretty much the same warranty so what does that say . From a reliability stand point there would not be as many non sponsored shooters shooting razors in the prs as there are . They are put together in America just as Leupold are they even have a scope that is berry compliant in the AMG so the made in America hog wash laurels Leupold likes to stand on is out the window. Leupold is no slouch in the advertising market look at the out door channel it's all brought to you by Leupold. I can get the same deal on both price wise but I have a feeling the Leupold one is going away. They have cut a bunch of people from the "pro staff" in the last few weeks

 

[KiYi]

Leupold for scopes (not binos or rangefinders). Lighter and more dependable.

 

[Kurtr]

Leupold for scopes (not binos or rangefinders). Lighter and more dependable.

These are then posts that are of no help. What are your uses. If you put the lightest and most dependable for ME but what if someone else is expecting something different..

The BEST is very relative it's like packs ( or insert fishing rods) some one says mine is the best. Is it ?have you tried every pack in every situation or is it the best for that individual person. What might be the best for some one else is going to suck for me and vice versa. So before taking any ones opinion on the best and dropping a bunch money on anything try it and find what's best for your needs. I have done it and it's amazing how many of the BEST I have bought and thought they were junk in my situation but does not mean the person telling me that was a liar or full of it they because it worked for them

 

[Bed Wetter]

$600 you say? Try some German Leica glass for 60% off:

https://www.eurooptic.com/leica-er-i-25-10x42-ibs-55030-rifle-scope.aspx

 

[Sub_Elect]

https://www.fieldandstream.com/top-10-rifle-scopes-2017#page-11

Pretty good read. Both scopes made it. Looks like money was no object and tests seem to be relavent. Also, it looks like Leupold got a second place.

 

[Kurtr]

There are so many scopes they did not test when saying the best and the scopes they tested use wise are all over the chart. It's like comparing top speed from a 300 verado and a 60hp four stroke. Kahles, tangent theata, hendsolt, are just three that should always be on a "BEST OF" list

 

[SDMF]

1. Let's be honest here switch out Leupold for where you put vortex it is the same.

2. At this point every manufacturer has pretty much the same warranty so what does that say .

3. From a reliability stand point there would not be as many non sponsored shooters shooting razors in the prs as there are .

1. Purely speaking of riflescopes, I see exponentially less Leupold advertising vs. Vortex. Leupold advertises the heck out of their Asia-Pacific produced binocs, spotters, and rangefinders but there isn't a single piece of that gear that I'd buy.

2. There is an immense difference between a "mail it in" and a "here's a new one over the counter" warrantee. Regarding and OTC warrantee, you either have to build something so good that it'll never fail and the only real cost associated with the warrantee is advertising you have it. Or, you have to charge exponentially more than the original item is worth and then hope you come out ahead. Either the end-user will get frustrated and change brands, or they'll be so enamored with the OTC warrantee and how many times they were provided a new scope that they'll buy more of them, maybe even upgrade within the brand.

3. Competitors in any competition where $$ is on the line, will follow the $$. Short of a few who are related to someone at a given manufacturer or personally invested in the company as an employee, manager, or owner, that crowd will blow like the wind to another brand if it'll cost them less out of pocket. No different than a professional fisherman switching boat/motor/lure/line/rod/reel, etc lines, it's about their own bottom line.

There was no Vortex when I worked retail and sold sporting goods. But, I sold a shit-ton of Burris, Pentax, and Nikon because they were sending me $$ or free product when I'd reach certain goals they set.

 

[Kurtr]

1. Purely speaking of riflescopes, I see exponentially less Leupold advertising vs. Vortex. Leupold advertises the heck out of their Asia-Pacific produced binocs, spotters, and rangefinders but there isn't a single piece of that gear that I'd buy.

2. There is an immense difference between a "mail it in" and a "here's a new one over the counter" warrantee. Regarding and OTC warrantee, you either have to build something so good that it'll never fail and the only real cost associated with the warrantee is advertising you have it. Or, you have to charge exponentially more than the original item is worth and then hope you come out ahead. Either the end-user will get frustrated and change brands, or they'll be so enamored with the OTC warrantee and how many times they were provided a new scope that they'll buy more of them, maybe even upgrade within the brand.

3. Competitors in any competition where $$ is on the line, will follow the $$. Short of a few who are related to someone at a given manufacturer or personally invested in the company as an employee, manager, or owner, that crowd will blow like the wind to another brand if it'll cost them less out of pocket. No different than a professional fisherman switching boat/motor/lure/line/rod/reel, etc lines, it's about their own bottom line.

There was no Vortex when I worked retail and sold sporting goods. But, I sold a shit-ton of Burris, Pentax, and Nikon because they were sending me $$ or free product when I'd reach certain goals they set.

you have to mail it in to vortex to get warranty its not over the counter. Its false statements that get me going more than any thing



I dont dispute that salesmen get deals for making more sales. I also told the guy at scheels he was full of shit when he told me spec ops guys are using the pst over schmidt and bender and nightforce.

 

[PrairieGhost]

SDMF you have me beat I have only had about 15. What I have noticed is most of my accuracy problems have not been rifles, but scopes. Most of my Leupolds would hold inside an inch, but I get rid of rifles that will not group under 1/2 inch. Well except for those with open sights. I have no idea how they group because it's better than my old eyes will do.

Someone mentioned Leupold range finder problems and now I can't find it. My son had the same problem. He had the 800 yard and if you were going to range a deer at 200 it was going to die of old age before it locked on.

I dont dispute that salesmen get deals for making more sales. I also told the guy at scheels he was full of shit when he told me spec ops guys are using the pst over schmidt and bender and nightforce.

I drool over those Nightforce, but I shoot the best I can afford and that's Vortex. I can not complain about a scope that lets my rifle group under 1/4 inch. I guess as long as bullets keep going where I want them I'm ok with it. I may be one of those guys SDMF is talking about. Optimist build airplanes and pessimists build parachutes. I carry an extra scope in my pack.

 

[Account Deleted]

Thanks for explanation SDMF. And thanks for the counterpoints Kurt.

 

[sjkinkade]

you have to mail it in to vortex to get warranty its not over the counter. Its false statements that get me going more than any thing



I dont dispute that salesmen get deals for making more sales. I also told the guy at scheels he was full of shit when he told me spec ops guys are using the pst over schmidt and bender and nightforce.

False. If the Vortex dealer you normally give your business to is not honoring Vortex's warranty over the counter, they need to build a better relationship with Vortex.
Having worked at a Vortex dealer and selling a ton of Vortex optics, Vortex specifically told us to take care of the customer right now, give them new product, and make it as easy as possible for them. Vortex then replaced our stock, and we mailed the defective product back to the warranty department. Hands down best customer service in the optics industry, not even close.

As far as Schmidt and Bender vs. Nightforce vs. Vortex, good luck finding a better value scope at the $1000 price point than the PST. If you want to talk $2000 on up, Schmidt and Bender is awesome, Nightforce is awesome, as is Vortex. However, I saw A LOT of people leave Nightforce because any time they had to deal with their customer service or sales reps, they got tired of dealing with jackasses.

 

[bigv]

As is with everything else....does the saying "you get what you pay for" relate?? I am no expert on optics. However I do think some of the lower level leupolds are average. But I have a vx7 and my pal has a vx6. They are both very nice and mine performs very well. They are not cheap however.

 

[Kurtr]

False. If the Vortex dealer you normally give your business to is not honoring Vortex's warranty over the counter, they need to build a better relationship with Vortex.
Having worked at a Vortex dealer and selling a ton of Vortex optics, Vortex specifically told us to take care of the customer right now, give them new product, and make it as easy as possible for them. Vortex then replaced our stock, and we mailed the defective product back to the warranty department. Hands down best customer service in the optics industry, not even close.

As far as Schmidt and Bender vs. Nightforce vs. Vortex, good luck finding a better value scope at the $1000 price point than the PST. If you want to talk $2000 on up, Schmidt and Bender is awesome, Nightforce is awesome, as is Vortex. However, I saw A LOT of people leave Nightforce because any time they had to deal with their customer service or sales reps, they got tired of dealing with jackasses.

not what vortex told me i had to mail it in when a lard ass sat on my spotting scope and broke the eye piece off i had it back in three days its the only problem i have had.

the bullshit part is the spec ops guys picking the pst over the other two. There are a bunch of scopes i the 1000 range right now that offer alot. the end user will determine which is the best for their use. Its the golden time of optics buying with all the options out there and every ones best differs as their use does

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this is so far down the rabbit hole....... To the op figure out what you want out of the scope then try to match your use with witch one will meat YOUR criteria the best good luck