250 LBS of Week - Not Guilty

[espringers]

stopping based on profile is not legal. stopping based on reasonable suspicion or probable cause is. in this case, he had PC to make the stop. this is from memory as it was a couple of weeks ago i read the briefs and decision. but, they were speeding i believe. problem is he detained them well past what would have been acceptable for a speeding ticket. the judge ruled the other circumstances the officer described did not warrant the continued detention and questioning in the police vehicle. nor did it warrant the k9 sniff. and he also said the alert of the dog wasn't enough to be considered an actual alert. that part of the decision was a bit sketchy to me. but, i think it was kind of irrelevant once he ruled the initial detention went on way too long in the first place.

 

[Davey Crockett]

Everything I read says they were not speeding , PG keeps on with his 2 MPH over the speed limit chatter but driving 73 MPH on I-94 would be two MPH UNDER the speed limit.



FARGO, N.D. — A North Dakota judge on Friday refused to consider as evidence nearly 500 pounds of marijuana seized during a vehicle stop because he said a county deputy did not have a good reason to be suspicious.




Bee Thor of Oshkosh, Wisconsin, and Nhia Lee of St. Paul, Minnesota, were both charged with possession of drugs and drug paraphernalia after the Jan. 21 bust on Interstate 94 near Jamestown. Authorities seized 476 pounds of pot as well as other items.

The state argued that Stutsman County Deputy Matt Thom suspected the defendants of transporting illegal drugs because the vehicle was going 2 mph under the speed limit, the suspects were from St. Paul, the driver, Lee, was sitting too rigidly and did not look at the deputy when he drove alongside the vehicle, and no luggage was visible.

Southeast District Judge Jay Schmitz said in his order that Thom's explanation for the stop "was too inconsistent and contrived to be credible" and it violated the defendants' Fourth Amendment rights regarding unreasonable searches and seizures. All evidence obtained after the stop is inadmissible, Schmitz wrote.

"This is not a close case — quite the opposite — and my legal conclusions are evident from my factual findings," the judge wrote.

Fargo attorney Jesse Lange, who represents Lee, said his client was stopped for "driving 73 mph on cruise control and following the rules of the road."

"This opinion really highlights the fact we only hear about the most flagrant of these constitutional violations," Lange said. "And if it doesn't lead to an arrest, the courts don't get involved."

Stutsman County State's Attorney Fritz Fremgen said he is considering whether to appeal the judge's order.

 

[PrairieGhost]

I would have thought there was a mistype. There is no reason to stop someone for driving 73 mph. Body language is often a dead give away, but it isn't probable cause. To much variation with people. Sometimes the worst with no conscience show the least response.

 

[Davey Crockett]

I would have thought there was a mistype. There is no reason to stop someone for driving 73 mph. Body language is often a dead give away, but it isn't probable cause. To much variation with people. Sometimes the worst with no conscience show the least response.

Haha, I think your finally starting to get it.

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But what if they legally could , Just for the fun of it to look in the car. Or what if they could throw me in jail for publicly stating my disdain about the way this officer handled himself in the arrest. Or what if they could pull you over and check your car for guns , Just to check the serial numbers . See where I'm going ? Give an inch and loose a foot.

 

[westwolfone]

"did not look at the deputy when he drove alongside the vehicle"

And if he would have looked at the deputy that would have been the reason.

Nice work blue !

 

[espringers]

davey... that's a different case. i may be mistaken. but, i thought this thread was started because of the morton county case.

just read the decision in the case you are referring to davey. completely different. and the judge jay schmitz does not appear very happy with what took place in stutsman county on january 21, 2018!

 

[Davey Crockett]

Too many to keep up with , I'd read about these two that involved the same officer.




JAMESTOWN, N.D.—The Stutsman County State's Attorney's Office moved to dismiss drug charges against two people Friday at the request of the Stutsman County Sheriff's Office, according to court documents.

"After reviewing the case and going over it with the state's attorney, we found some issues with the case," said Chad Kaiser, Stutsman County sheriff. "We felt it was best to dismiss the case."


Mae Thao, 32, St. Paul, and Xang Thao, 30, Redding, Calif., were charged in December 2017 with possession of marijuana with intent to deliver, a Class A felony, and possession of drug paraphernalia, a Class A misdemeanor.
The move comes after charges were dropped in another large drug bust in Stutsman County earlier this year after a judge ruled the traffic stop leading to the arrests was not justified. The same officer, Stutsman County Sheriff's Deputy Matt Thom, made the arrests in both cases
In the case dismissed Friday, Mae Thao was driving a Dodge Grand Caravan on Interstate 94 on Dec. 11, 2017, when she was stopped by Thom when the vehicle "failed to signal for 100 feet prior to making a lane change," according to the affidavit of probable cause in the case.
Thom also reported Mae Thao and Xang Thao acted nervous and could not "articulate a travel plan whatsoever," according to the affidavit.
The deputy reported he could smell raw marijuana and noted the floor in the back of the van was covered with blankets. A search found 198 pounds of marijuana in the van.
The dismissal of the charges came days before a hearing on a motion to suppress the evidence seized at the traffic stop before Judge Troy LeFevre.
"When law enforcement officers do a stop, they believe it is a good stop," Kaiser said. "Then, when it gets to court, it is looked at in a lot more detail."
Kaiser said the recent ruling in a similar case also played a part in dismissing charges against Mae Thao and Xang Thao.
Charges were dismissed June 28 against Nhia Lee, 36, St. Paul, and Bee Thor, 37, Oshkosh, Wis. Thor and Lee were charged with possession of marijuana with intent to deliver when 476 pounds of marijuana were discovered in a pickup they were driving on Jan. 21. Court records indicate Thom stopped the vehicle because it was traveling below the speed limit and was too close to a vehicle that had passed it on Interstate 94.
Judge Jay Schmitz ruled in that case the seized drugs were inadmissible in court because there was no probable cause to stop the vehicle and search it. Charges against Lee and Thor were dismissed after the ruling.
Kaiser said the drugs seized in the cases will be destroyed. Law enforcement officials are exploring seizing the vehicles used in both cases and cash seized during the arrest of Mae Thao and Xang Thao under North Dakota's civil asset forfeiture law.
Kaiser said Stutsman County Sheriff's Office deputies are continuing to receive training on what he refers to as crime interdiction. Crime interdiction, as it applies to drug enforcement activity, means law enforcement efforts are designed to capture drugs and drug carriers in transit.
"It is a fairly new thing around here," Kaiser said. "It is all about training, training and more training, and making sure you have all the I's dotted and T's crossed."

 

[dean nelson]

Dont even get me started on this BS crap "North Dakota's civil asset forfeiture law"! In my opinion it should be a law that if you don't have enough evidence to convict a person of a crime you don't get to keep their damn stuff. Way to big of a self-serving incentive. Obviously this case there definitely guilty but there are so many cases it's not even remotely close to this cut-and-dry where but they just keep all their stuff not to mention if you have too much cash on you they will just randomly take it for no good reason.

 

[701FishSlayer]

There should be restitution for the people that had the charges dropped. The county should have to pay them street value for the ganja that they wrongfully took.

 

[Davey Crockett]

No thank you, I'm tired of spending money like it grows on trees. I think we should lift the prohibition like we did booze and tax it.

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and pull the pin on the medical portion that appears to be nothing more than a non accommodating money pit.

 

[PrairieGhost]

But what if they legally could , Just for the fun of it to look in the car. Or what if they could throw me in jail for publicly stating my disdain about the way this officer handled himself in the arrest. Or what if they could pull you over and check your car for guns , Just to check the serial numbers . See where I'm going ? Give an inch and loose a foot.

Well they can't so what if doesn't mean much because everything is going the other direction. It's tougher and tougher to make a conviction. So tough that many violent criminals have been getting off for years. It started with the Miranda warnings. Criminals love this stuff. In the end though it's better ten criminals get off than a single innocent person go to prison. Often it appears as a miscarriage of justice, but punishing the innocent is the greater crime.

This however is a miscarriage of justice because there is no question of guilt. The judge can't be blamed for following current law. The Sheriff can't be blamed for not wasting taxpayer money with no chance of conviction. Even the deputy can not be blamed if they indeed failed to signal. Any infraction is probable cause. However it sounds like time of detainment somehow figured into the dismissal. That's head scratching.

 

[tikkalover]

There should be restitution for the people that had the charges dropped. The county should have to pay them street value for the ganja that they wrongfully took.

I, like Davey agree, we pay enough in taxes. The Shitty of Minot is going to raise mine another $450 this year, that's up $900 in 2 years. I say the state should sell the stuff at street value and not raise my taxes. :;:smokin

 

[Davey Crockett]

Well they can't so what if doesn't mean much because everything is going the other direction. It's tougher and tougher to make a conviction. So tough that many violent criminals have been getting off for years. It started with the Miranda warnings. Criminals love this stuff. In the end though it's better ten criminals get off than a single innocent person go to prison. Often it appears as a miscarriage of justice, but punishing the innocent is the greater crime.This however is a miscarriage of justice because there is no question of guilt. The judge can't be blamed for following current law. The Sheriff can't be blamed for not wasting taxpayer money with no chance of conviction. Even the deputy can not be blamed if they indeed failed to signal. Any infraction is probable cause. However it sounds like time of detainment somehow figured into the dismissal. That's head scratching.[/QUOTE



Questions PG. Take your time to respond. A day is acceptable but 2 or 3 is preferred because I want your best answers.
Given your above ramblings about LEO issues with prosecution plus the insane amount of money we have spent on the "war" on marijuana since Nixon declared it a schedule 1 would you say we have gained ground, lost ground or Holding our ground of keeping it off the streets ?

Part two, Financially speaking and society as a whole,Would we be better off or worse off If we legalized MJ , Taxed it and dissolved the non accommodating medical money pit and spent the windfall trying to figure out what it takes to get the hard drug and opioid abuse crisis resolved ?

Last question, When comparing Legal to illegal, do you think there would be less, More or about the same MJ on the streets ? Honest questions for honest answers.

 

[PrairieGhost]

I don't think time will change my answer.

#1. We have lost ground. We have also lost ground with political integrity, media integrity, moral values etc. We have lost some freedom. We have been in a downhill slide for some time. It's been incremental so it appears normal to each new generation.

#2. I don't like using money as the measure of right and wrong.

#3. We only need to look at Colorado for that answer. If it was nation wide it wouldn't be as exaggerated in Colorado and other states where it is legal, but I'm sure there would be more demand so more on the streets.

As I have said in the past I have nothing against medical mj, but once we have that they will want recreational. That didn't take long for my opinion to play out true. Before we go to far I think we need some studies perhaps by the CDC, not doctors paid for by special interests. In ten years what will be the lung cancer rate in Colorado? How about blood pressure, affect on birth defects, additional highway accidents and deaths, and what will be the affect on people moving on the more dangerous drugs? How about addiction rates? I hear all these positive things, but I question the sources.

 

[Wags2.0]

I don't think time will change my answer.

#1. We have lost ground. We have also lost ground with political integrity, media integrity, moral values etc. We have lost some freedom. We have been in a downhill slide for some time. It's been incremental so it appears normal to each new generation.

#2. I don't like using money as the measure of right and wrong.

#3. We only need to look at Colorado for that answer. If it was nation wide it wouldn't be as exaggerated in Colorado and other states where it is legal, but I'm sure there would be more demand so more on the streets.

As I have said in the past I have nothing against medical mj, but once we have that they will want recreational. That didn't take long for my opinion to play out true. Before we go to far I think we need some studies perhaps by the CDC, not doctors paid for by special interests. In ten years what will be the lung cancer rate in Colorado? How about blood pressure, affect on birth defects, additional highway accidents and deaths, and what will be the affect on people moving on the more dangerous drugs? How about addiction rates? I hear all these positive things, but I question the sources.

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Not to mention the homosexuality! Yikes!

 

[Davey Crockett]

It's a failure but you are still ok with throwing our tax money down a gopher hole because it makes you feel good. That's mostly what I was wondering about.

Would the windfall from the tax money collected come in handy to combat the opioid and hard drug abuse and trafficking or do we have enough funding in place to keep throwing down a gopher hole for the next 100 years ?

The problem won't be going away any time soon at the pace we are moving along. The better reason for legalizing though is to show the dictatorship that there is power in numbers and we won't be peons . What they did with the Medical bill is total BS I'd say their time would be better spent backpedaling on the way they handled that rather than further digging their heels in and spending taxpayers money to fight off taxpayers. That won't sit well with a majority of the people, Just watch.


Make sure you get out and vote people , No matter what your opinion is get out and vote. I expect we will see a record amount of voters and that is a good thing . If you think there is a chance you will get busy and not make it to the polls it only takes a couple minutes to send for an absentee ballot and you are covered.

https://vip.sos.nd.gov/absentee

 

[Davey Crockett]

Fun debating with you PG , I still say your a good guy since your stuck in old times and old time values. But you are a liberal spender just like the dictators that flubbed up the medical. Being stuck in old times is a fun place to be and I'm right with you but you also have to look ahead into the future once in a while and keep on course. Especially the budget, I almost feel like I lived the 30s given I grew up surrounded by people that did and they'd tell lots of stories once I'd get them going. The budget scares the hell out of me. It's not a matter of why but when this big spending catches up to us. I'm tired of spending money like it grows on trees.

 

[PrairieGhost]

It's a failure but you are still ok with throwing our tax money down a gopher hole because it makes you feel good. That's mostly what I was wondering about.

Actually I agree with you on the wild spending. However if were going to talk making money on pot, where do we draw the line? Should we legalize any type of gambling nation wide? Should we legalize prostitution nation wide? Although I don't know how a prostitute makes money with the current crop of women. I guess there are some butt ugly guys. Maybe we could turn all hunting into pay to play. How about $5K to hunt ducks per year? If we try balance money and morals were headed to the pit right now.

We ask ourselves what has happened to society. Look in a mirror we have happened. Most parents do a crap job of disciplining their children today. The current attitude is they want to be their best friend not their parent. OK off my soap box.

Davey C. Not only my parents and grandparents, but even my older brother hit the end of the 30's. Of course he don't remember it. My mother could pinch a penny so hard it put tears in Abes eyes. We thrashed until 1958 I think it was. I remember no electricity and no indoor plumbing. Pansy asses who think they have it tough today have no idea. Things get a little tough and they go have a joint. I remember dad so happy about the flax crop one year. We never heard of rust. Booom whole darn fields gone. Oatmeal for breakfast, school sandwich, oatmeal or potatoes for supper. Still we made it without booze or pot.

 

[Fly Carpin]

Actually I agree with you on the wild spending. However if were going to talk making money on pot, where do we draw the line? Should we legalize any type of gambling nation wide? Should we legalize prostitution nation wide? Although I don't know how a prostitute makes money with the current crop of women. I guess there are some butt ugly guys. Maybe we could turn all hunting into pay to play. How about $5K to hunt ducks per year? If we try balance money and morals were headed to the pit right now.

We ask ourselves what has happened to society. Look in a mirror we have happened. Most parents do a crap job of disciplining their children today. The current attitude is they want to be their best friend not their parent. OK off my soap box.

Davey C. Not only my parents and grandparents, but even my older brother hit the end of the 30's. Of course he don't remember it. My mother could pinch a penny so hard it put tears in Abes eyes. We thrashed until 1958 I think it was. I remember no electricity and no indoor plumbing. Pansy asses who think they have it tough today have no idea. Things get a little tough and they go have a joint. I remember dad so happy about the flax crop one year. We never heard of rust. Booom whole darn fields gone. Oatmeal for breakfast, school sandwich, oatmeal or potatoes for supper. Still we made it without booze or pot.

This one belongs in the Hall of Fame

 

[JayKay]

Davey Crockett, you say that if we let the police search, where will it all end? Give an inch, lose a foot - right?

So, legalize marijuana, but don't legalize (what is in your eyes) "hard drugs"? Who gets to decide? You? Me? Very different opinions, I'm sure.

Just because it's hard/expensive (to enforce the laws) doesn't mean we should give up, right?

I know that I'm picking out pieces of your argument, and I don't wish to get into a huge discussion about it, but I have to say that you can be as unbending as PG.