How to preserve hunting when all land is posted

[Migrator Man]

I'd prefer if it would just stay as it is and then we wouldn't need any of those suggestions.

I'm a landowner and yes I post my land, but generally let almost anyone hunt it as long as they ask. Only one I turned down in the last few years was a guide and only reason I didn't let him is I thought some others were going to be hunting that weekend, I told him to check back later in the season and I'd let him but he never came back.

I don't really understand this thing about opening up ditches and section lines to hunt. Most of the ditches around here are mowed to look like a lawn and section lines are usually farmed right up to the wheel track trail. You'd spend weeks trying to find any game in them unless you got real lucky. Where does the ditch end? at the fence? or 66ft from the center of the section line?

I think the real questions we should be asking is why is so much land posted anymore. I'm sure we all remember not that long ago when you didn't see all that many signs up except for maybe a choice piece of deer land. Now even people that don't hunt are posting their land.

I don't know how to make things go back to the days of unposted land all over but this new attempt to post all land isn't going to help. I wish it would just stay the way it is.

The reason so much more is posted is because of the poachers and trespassers which many of who are not even hunters. They thing about making everything posted is none of this illegal activity will go away and may just get worse! More enforcement and harsher penalties is what we need to fix the problem!

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My family, myself included, farms and ranch as a "hobby". This year I had a good chunk of ground that was in row crops and I was just finishing up harvesting the second week of rifle season. We didn't have the land posted and there was people on one of the quarters throughout the weekend. One of them stopped me and thanked me for not having it posted and asked if we mind if he drove in to retrieve his deer, as he just harvested a couple does. He came up, shook my hand and thanked me for the opportunity.

We leave in roughly 40ac every year for the wildlife. Mainly corn/sunflowers. That's roughly $9,000, and we do tree plantings and other things on top of that. We all obtain gratis tags every year, which on average we only fill 1 of those a year. My "cut of the money" is shooting a rooster over my dog in the fall and getting a chance at one of the mature bucks that I've helped nourish along the way since they were a fawn.

Everyone who complains about not having access isn't looking very hard. All it takes is a conversation and the gates will open. The gentleman who took 5 min out of his time to make it a point to thank me and shake my hand, he'll have access to the ground as long as I'm around.

I would love to be able to drive up to a property and ask permission for access in person. The trouble is finding where to meet them, if they will be home, or they do not live in the area. Birds move around and as a waterfowl hunter I do not know what fields they will be in year to year or even day to day so I rely on scouting. Absentee landowners provide the biggest opportunity for me because many of them do not care to post. Making everything posted would take away this opportunity that none of us will ever get back. I might as well hire a guide to go hunting at that point, but many are not as lucky as myself to be able to afford that. Landowners like you are the ones who are keeping our hunting traditions going, and thanks again for not posting all of your land!

 

[Enslow]

Everything gets posted after the habitat is burnt and dug under. The no hunting signs are just a neighborly reminder that there is no game to hunt. I’ve never seen so many black fields posted.

 

[zoops]

I too prefer to ask landowners in person. Even finding phone numbers is getting difficult these days as many have gone away from landlines or don't answer them. There were two landowners this fall whose homes I stopped at least 5 times each within a couple week period in November before making contact (one in person, the other I finally just stopped at a nearby farm and got his number). One of these landowners was over 10 miles away from the piece I was asking permission on. He gave me permission for the weekend but said he'd probably be hunting it the next weekend (impressive that he allowed me), so it's not like you can always say go find them at a less busy time of year (is there a less busy time of year for a rancher? )as many probably give permission on a week to week basis.

Of course hunting will continue if the 'trespass' bill passes, it's just that a part of the ND heritage will die with it for no good reason.

 

[Obi-Wan]

The Game and Fish or the people of ND do not pay depredation. In lieu of that, it is my understanding that a gratis tag "trade" was made for tolerance of deer.

I don't hunt deer but I do like viewing them on my property. To a point......

In 2019 we harvested sunflowers. The deer moved in after the rifle hunt. 200 deer congregated on 80 acres is a site. However, they went after my tree row seedlings. They really liked the ash.

It's not posted and six bow hunters moved into an abandoned yard. Well shit, too many guys walking around and talking, they didn't shoot any. Two friends asked if they could post it. They killed deer. They wouldn't have had to, but I found a 12 pack of Budweiser in my garage.

Everyone knows the story. In the late 1800's railroad crews etc. didn't have refrigeration and grocery stores so they hired hunters to shoot everything. The first settlers moving west killed wildlife instead of eating bessy the milk cow. The North American Wildlife Conservation Model was born. Government agencies were formed to protect the publics wildlife. Bag limits were set and the wildlife came roaring back.

Good times and hunting is supposed to be fun. And then in the late 1990's the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation was written. Notice the play on words. The word Model was simply moved from the end to the middle. Usurpers.

Now we fight: road verses roadless, private land tags, season dates, resident verses nonresident, crossbows, technology, ATV's, baiting, tournaments, the list is long.

Depredation could be minimized by allowing more hunter access.

 

[fly2cast]

Posted land is a real issue for me and I don't know if there are any good solutions other than more money. Continue the plots program but boost the money and open more land. I'm getting to the point that I no longer care about not making the landowner mad about hunting legislation. At this point, there is so much posted land I don't know how you can make it any worse. Some of you must have the best of talking skills because in my experience, most landowners will not let you hunt. This year I had my daughters (college age) make the calls to landowners thinking that the landowner would grant permission to two gals hunting for their does. Five out of five said no. And its not like we called a landowner with premium hunting spots that everybody wanted. They were average hunting spots at best. Not even sure if there were deer in those locations. And I'm not going to help the farmer pick rocks or fence to allow me to hunt. If you guys want to do that, be my guest. I don't have the time to do that. Never had to do that kind of crap years ago and the farmers were more than happy to have you shoot some of those pests off their land.

One of the problems as I see it is that the more land that gets posted, the more likely the next landowner will post. What happens is that any tract of land that isn't posted get hit very hard by hunters, which pisses off the landowner so that the next year, he will post. Not sure how to stop that. The answer might actually be to really limit the amount of deer gun licenses, including gratis. Or lengthen the season by three or four weeks so that not everybody hunts at the same time.

 

[johnr]

What about training my cat to hunt?

Anyone have a hunting cat?

 

[fly2cast]

What about training my cat to hunt?

Anyone have a hunting cat?

LOL. If anyone wants to teach my three cats to hunt, I would be more than grateful. Maybe even have a hunting accident with one of those cats and I'd be even more grateful.

 

[3Roosters]

Couple things have worked for me over the years...this is mostly for Roosters, however as i dont hunt deer much anymore. If said Rudies are on posted land AND if land owner is local and hopefully answers the phone, if permission is granted, THANK them and let them know i appreciate it. DUH! but it goes along way. If it was a successful hunt..or even if it wasn't, call them back afterwards and thank again and tell them you would like to send them a gift card for the local pub/burger/steakhouse. Better yet, bring along some packages of fish filets and stop afterwards and give them a pak or 2.
Then TRY to visit during NON HUNTING SEASON just to say hi..perhaps with more fish filets..I am sure lots of land owners get sick of being called or stopped during hunting season.
Its the least a person can do...especially if it is good land. Who knows. might even become friends.

 

[KDM]

Coming from a landowning greybeard.........a couple thoughts.

What LANDOWNERS can do to help....

First and foremost....BE POLITE!!!!

Decide BEFORE the season...
a. If you even want other people on your land?
-If so, how many and what kind, ie. youth, handicap, men, women, etc.?
b. How many deer, pheasants, etc you want taken off the land per year and what kind?
c. When you reach that number, what are you going to do and what are you going to say to other callers?
d. HERE'S A BIGGIE......Decide what the rules will be.
-How many pheasant hunters and dogs are allowed? 15 guys and 5 dogs or just 3 and one dog?
-deer drives or no deer drives.
-where are the sanctuaries and where can hunters go and not go. (Be specific)
-what happens once a deer is taken? You track it, you are with them when they track, or what? (Again, Be Specific)
-driving off trail? Yes/No? Walk in only?


What HUNTERS can do to help.

First and foremost.....BE POLITE!!!!

Decide what you will say if given permission or denied permission. Both will happen. It helps to have a plan.

Understand that the landowner holds all the cards. You have none and are asking for a privilege to be on someone else's land.

Tell the landowner EXACTLY what you want and I mean EXACTLY! The days of can we hunt your land and then it's a free for all are LONG gone. Don't ask permission for yourself and your kid and then bring 2 of your friends as well? Don't ask to deer hunt and then bring a shotgun, just in case a pheasant jumps up or walks by. Don't ask for a youngster and then adults hunt. Any of these will get you kicked off my place forever and I suspect others as well.

If given permission, understand that it is FOR THAT DAY ONLY, unless otherwise stated. Permission isn't perpetual or for every species.

ASK about the above landowner decisions and once addressed and agreed upon, BY GOD STICK TO THEM!!!

Clean up after yourself. Even if you didn't litter, pick up some if you see it. Landowners DO notice stuff like that.

Regardless of whether or not you were successful, be THANKFUL for the opportunity and tell the landowner. Saying "Thanks" goes a long way. Getting permission, hunting, and then just driving away helps get more acres closed up.

If in doubt about anything...ASK THE LANDOWNER before you proceed. Remember, they may have special issues you don't know about.

 

[Zogman]

KDM, Awesome, This should be printed out and posted in every hunters bathroom.

 

[bravo]

MarbleEyez that's great and I'm sincerely thankful for landowners like you, I think we all are. Lots of times though a farmer or rancher just doesn't like seeing a truck they don't know pulling into their yard and you're immediately off on the wrong foot. ND is heading down the wrong path, thanks to the all powerful ag groups controlling the dinosaurs and idiots in our legislative body, the slobs who poach/trespass/trash land, and the sour land owners. The ag groups I understand, even if I disagree with their goals. They want every inch of the state in production. No public land, no hunting, just a big private garden with cattle. The land owners, namely the "lockout" group, I don't understand. Not all that long ago hunters and farmers saw eye to eye. I remember my uncle would leave bales around sloughs for duck and goose hunters, eat his lunch with whoever was picking up dekes after shooting geese in his fields, tell strangers where they could get a deer and help push his own tree rows. Now my cousin straight up patrols the land, borderline harassing people who drive the gravel roads in his area. The old men at cenex used to tell me where to go and to "shoot 'em all!". There's obviously still more good guy landowners than assholes, but the assholes have a bigger presence especially on social media, which is what I think is driving a bigger wedge between everyone.

Before this becomes an bigger essay; I'll throw in my $0.02. Re-write the law and remove the cap on public acres. Sorry farm bureau, you can't have it all to yourself. Game and Fish, hold hunter/landowner round table / pint nights in every district available to ALL of the public, not pre-selected senators / lobbyists / group leaders. Let people discuss problems and network, God forbid people find out they have things in common and share similar interests. Expand the PLOTS program, expand CRP acres, Cap the number of G/O, Increase the number of wardens. Its not impossible when you see how much money is wasted in other areas.

 

[Kurtr]

Would be better to just call it meeting at the bar for beer more people would show up for that

 

[Fritz the Cat]

MarbleEyez that's great and I'm sincerely thankful for landowners like you, I think we all are. Lots of times though a farmer or rancher just doesn't like seeing a truck they don't know pulling into their yard and you're immediately off on the wrong foot. ND is heading down the wrong path, thanks to the all powerful ag groups controlling the dinosaurs and idiots in our legislative body, the slobs who poach/trespass/trash land, and the sour land owners. The ag groups I understand, even if I disagree with their goals. They want every inch of the state in production. No public land, no hunting, just a big private garden with cattle. The land owners, namely the "lockout" group, I don't understand. Not all that long ago hunters and farmers saw eye to eye. I remember my uncle would leave bales around sloughs for duck and goose hunters, eat his lunch with whoever was picking up dekes after shooting geese in his fields, tell strangers where they could get a deer and help push his own tree rows. Now my cousin straight up patrols the land, borderline harassing people who drive the gravel roads in his area. The old men at cenex used to tell me where to go and to "shoot 'em all!". There's obviously still more good guy landowners than assholes, but the assholes have a bigger presence especially on social media, which is what I think is driving a bigger wedge between everyone.

Before this becomes an bigger essay; I'll throw in my $0.02. Re-write the law and remove the cap on public acres. Sorry farm bureau, you can't have it all to yourself. Game and Fish, hold hunter/landowner round table / pint nights in every district available to ALL of the public, not pre-selected senators / lobbyists / group leaders. Let people discuss problems and network, God forbid people find out they have things in common and share similar interests. Expand the PLOTS program, expand CRP acres, Cap the number of G/O, Increase the number of wardens. Its not impossible when you see how much money is wasted in other areas.

bravo, if Game and Fish were to hold roundtables......you may not want to claim landowners want a big private garden for cattle.

 

[bravo]

If you re-read the post, i said the ag groups.

 

[PrairieGhost]

If you re-read the post, i said the ag groups.

Your absolutely right. All organizations are like that. Pheasants Forever want pheasants. Ducks Unlimited wants ducks. Farm Bureau and Farmers Union are all about agriculture. The only difference is Farm Bureau wants to farm their land and yours, while Farmers Union wants to farm gov programs.


One day I was eating lunch with a dozen Ducks Unlimited guys. Back in the hayday of Ducks Unlimited. They were incensed if you didnt buy a banquet ticket from them. They said to me you dont much care about ducks do you? I said I love ducks. With a puzzled look they said I rarely hunt ducks so why do you love ducks. I said I like to hunt coyotes and ducks and duck eggs are great coyote food. Lucky there was no tar or featherd readily available. One guy totally lost it. Some people have no sense of humor.

 

[shorthairsrus]

We actually just came through the best hunting era --- crp maxed, plots --- we had a landowners that were more than willing to let a guy on when the deer population was high. Then came the bitchin about hitting deer with vehicles, game and fish greed and some weather (although the weather was not the primary issue imo). Its still better then when i was a kid.

 

[fly2cast]

One other thing that I would really like to see is for the state to properly manage their school land. Manage it so that it doesn't get grazed to shit and is wildlife friendly. Why do they let the farmers destroy so much of that land? Plant trees with fences, control grazing, etc. Most of it is complete wasteland.

 

[fireone]

I hunt 3 sections of SSL that is cross fenced and unlike many, the renters do a great job of managing the grass. If a renter grazes it down to dirt he loses growth in the spring and thus lbs of beef to sell. But some don't care. I'd like to see the state put those wire cages out on the school land and when it is grazed to 50% the cows go home regardless of the calendar date.
And I see USFW is grazing some of the Waterfowl Production Areas every other year to open up the dead plant residue. That's good for wildlife too.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

 

[eyexer]

I agree. The state land is grazed for the last sliver of grass. Leave their damn bale netting lay all over the place. Drive around on it in the spring and tear the shit out of it. Feed hay on it when they’re not supposed to. It a damn joke. No supervision at all. We need to start raising holy hell about this shit. Probably going to take a lawsuit against the state. My complaints to the land board totally fell on deaf ears. Pictures and all.