Trespass Bill Part 3 - Solution Thread

[coyotetrapper]

I guess the part 2 thread isn't any better than the first. So I am starting Part 3. Lets see some suggestions for middle ground and list solutions to both sides.

Quote out of Grand Forks Herald

http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/4211926-north-dakota-agriculture-lines-support-trespassing-bill

"Sen. Donald Schaible, R-Mott, sponsored the bill. Though it in part was in relation to the anti-Dakota Access Pipeline protests ongoing in his district, Schaible said the bill would take care of a longstanding issue in which landowners have to put up hundreds of signs to keep people off their land."

Senator Schaible told me this isn't a hunting issue. Well I am going to say now it probably is or at least it is leaning that way. I told him it would become one. So please come up with common sense ways to deal with this.

It seems one of the biggest gripes is people taking down posted signs, defacing, etc and then saying the land wasn't posted. I have a solution for this.

Vermont for example requires landowners to record the posted land with the town clerk or land records office. I say how about recording with the County Recorder annually what land is posted. That way there is a legal public record of what land is posted. This would give landowners proof of posting to prosecute trespassers.

I wasn't at the hearing wish I was. To keep the future relationship with landowners and sportsman on equal footing I think this bill needs more massaging...

 

[gst]

Leave the law alone increase penalties where they hurt a bit. maybe a couple years loss of hunting.

The reality is those snowflakes getting paid to protest donlt care about a Class b misdemeanor. Neither does that jack ass shooting a deer a few yards from my folks house.

 

[KDM]

Why do folks think there's a problem with our current tresspassing law???? It's NOT broke. Just enforce what's already there.

 

[eyexer]

ultimately it's what most of us figured it was, an anti sportsman bill. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ........Sportsman in Schaible's district need to deal with him in the appropriate manner.

 

[MathewsZman]

Why do folks think there's a problem with our current tresspassing law???? It's NOT broke. Just enforce what's already there.

Hmmmmmmmm , I wonder if this would work on gun purchase laws ? I wonder !

 

[Livetohuntandfish]

I accually have a legit solution to the problem. Instead of these "hunting" organizations having these big banquets that included drinking, gun giveaways and whatever else, why don't they start having programs that educate and make these young hunters understand nature and the correct ways to hunt. I know this will never happen but other then the game and fish, I have yet to see a hunting group try to make a difference in how to educate the next generation. And before you think I have no clue what I'm talking about I helped start a du chapter back in the day when I was young and dumb. Wanted to make a difference until I after a year I gave up because it's just about the money to these so called hunting organizations..

 

[coyotetrapper]

Education will go a long way in helping the future generations learn the proper and respectful way to hunt. I trap quite a bit and I try to educate instead of argue when someone that doesn't believe trapping has a purpose. After I inform these people they at least understand my point of view. The same goes with educating future hunters to show respect and hunt the right way. We could probably avoid these bills in the future if we did more educating.

 

[cornman53]

Solution. Make it easier for landowners to post the land like Montana does. A can of orange spray paint and paint the gate posts. An orange post means no hunting/trespassing without permission. Get rid of the high dollar no trespassing signs and all the requirement for signatures, and new signs every year.

Stiffen and enforce the penalty for trespassing to include loss of hunting and fishing privileges and confiscation of any firearms/vehicles used in the trespass.

I grew up in Montana and my family owned a farm/ranch and we had two cows shot dead. And others including a horse shot but survived. We had multiple times with hunters tearing across freshly planted winter wheat fields. And once had a guy start our pasture on fire because he was driving across some deep dry grass. with all of that one guy got a $250 fine.

Except for PLOTS land, I make every effort to call the land owner before I hunt on it, posted or not. This is what my grandfather, father, and many uncles taught me. In 7 years of hunting here in ND, I have only had one time when I could not get a hold of someone where I wanted to hunt. I have been told no and I thanked them and move on. I have been given permission most of the time and thanked for asking before I hunted. And I have developed some good friendships with landowners in doing this.

I have also been with hunting groups that see a nice piece of land and drive around to look for signs and if none jump out and hunt it. or if it is not marked "properly" they will still hunt it. Their comment was "it's North Dakota, this is how we hunt". Needless to say I didn't hunt that property and no longer hunt with them. I am not saying this is wrong, its just that I don't agree with it and that's fine.

Land owners have a right to protect their property and livestock, because that is theirs. Hunters have a right to hunt the wildlife because it is all of ours. There can be a compromise but both sides have to be willing to give a little. And violators of the law need to be punished to the full extent.

 

[Retired Educator]

For the vast majority of hunters we do have education. Hunter ethics and landowner responsibility is a pretty big emphasis in Hunter Education. I have hunted a long time in ND, 50+ years. This issue has been around forever. There has to be a way to enforce our current laws without being so specific on "Legally posted." For me, I have rarely seen land posted that didn't have some indication of the landowners intent. A poster might be missing on one corner but i'll bet there not all gone. In that case, use some common sense. I never did enjoy an ass-chewing just so I could shoot a bird. If you do make an hones mistake, apologize, do what you can to make the landowner a little more comfortable that you are a good guy and just made a mistake. I'm guessing most of them get pissed when you argue and blame him for the problem. Even if you're technically correct, swallow your pride and be pretty humble. Even if you're in the right the landowner has the right to ask you to leave.

When possible, even if it's not posted, an attempt to contact the landowner can reap rewards. More than once when I've made contact for permission I've been directed to an area that the landowner thinks might be better.

On the other side I've visited with several landowners that really don't care and would rather not be bothered when they are busy. Wonder how many of them have spoken up.

 

[eyexer]

I accually have a legit solution to the problem. Instead of these "hunting" organizations having these big banquets that included drinking, gun giveaways and whatever else, why don't they start having programs that educate and make these young hunters understand nature and the correct ways to hunt. I know this will never happen but other then the game and fish, I have yet to see a hunting group try to make a difference in how to educate the next generation. And before you think I have no clue what I'm talking about I helped start a du chapter back in the day when I was young and dumb. Wanted to make a difference until I after a year I gave up because it's just about the money to these so called hunting organizations..

they do and have had for many years. It's called Hunters Ed. You have to take it to get a license.

- - - Updated - - -

Solution. Make it easier for landowners to post the land like Montana does. A can of orange spray paint and paint the gate posts. An orange post means no hunting/trespassing without permission. Get rid of the high dollar no trespassing signs and all the requirement for signatures, and new signs every year.

Stiffen and enforce the penalty for trespassing to include loss of hunting and fishing privileges and confiscation of any firearms/vehicles used in the trespass.

I grew up in Montana and my family owned a farm/ranch and we had two cows shot dead. And others including a horse shot but survived. We had multiple times with hunters tearing across freshly planted winter wheat fields. And once had a guy start our pasture on fire because he was driving across some deep dry grass. with all of that one guy got a $250 fine.

Except for PLOTS land, I make every effort to call the land owner before I hunt on it, posted or not. This is what my grandfather, father, and many uncles taught me. In 7 years of hunting here in ND, I have only had one time when I could not get a hold of someone where I wanted to hunt. I have been told no and I thanked them and move on. I have been given permission most of the time and thanked for asking before I hunted. And I have developed some good friendships with landowners in doing this.

I have also been with hunting groups that see a nice piece of land and drive around to look for signs and if none jump out and hunt it. or if it is not marked "properly" they will still hunt it. Their comment was "it's North Dakota, this is how we hunt". Needless to say I didn't hunt that property and no longer hunt with them. I am not saying this is wrong, its just that I don't agree with it and that's fine.

Land owners have a right to protect their property and livestock, because that is theirs. Hunters have a right to hunt the wildlife because it is all of ours. There can be a compromise but both sides have to be willing to give a little. And violators of the law need to be punished to the full extent.

They don't even enforce the current laws. The few times they do the penalty is trivial. It's like passing more gun laws when they don't enforce the ones they have now. And the penalties are a joke.

 

[gst]

ultimately it's what most of us figured it was, an anti sportsman bill. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ........Sportsman in Schaible's district need to deal with him in the appropriate manner.

FFS

I guarantee eye you would be the FIRST one bitching the loudest if people were raising hell in your back yard. It was an anti dumbass bill, quit trying so hard to be one.

- - - Updated - - -

I accually have a legit solution to the problem. Instead of these "hunting" organizations having these big banquets that included drinking, gun giveaways and whatever else, why don't they start having programs that educate and make these young hunters understand nature and the correct ways to hunt. I know this will never happen but other then the game and fish, I have yet to see a hunting group try to make a difference in how to educate the next generation. And before you think I have no clue what I'm talking about I helped start a du chapter back in the day when I was young and dumb. Wanted to make a difference until I after a year I gave up because it's just about the money to these so called hunting organizations..

Our local club Mouse River Loop Pheasants does things like this. Youth hunts, they have youth shotguns to lend to those that may not have one, sponsor free youth shooting at our gun club, have a day to pair dog owners with kids hunting so they experience hunting behind a good dog. Try to have areas posted just for kids to hunt. Raise and release 3-4000 birds each year with some kids raising and releasing some.

Pretty good outfit with some great guys doing the hard work.

- - - Updated - - -

Hunters ed is okay but it is a one time classroom stuff and by the time those kids that are in there are out on their own driving around hunting there has been a few years pass.

the idea that groups like DU and others actually spend their dollars on a few deals with kids every fall is a good one, we have a friend up in Canada that is hooked up with DU and they do several youth hunts with him he does a lot of other stiff with youth in the community as well.

It doesn;t help when kids get on sites like this and see people bitching about crap like "anti sportsmen bills" and the other crap they can read on here.

 

[Livetohuntandfish]

I guess that's what I meant by game and fish. And I agree a lot of the small organizations and small community's have great stuff for kids. Why I was talking about the larger organizations is because I think most hunters these days aren't growing up with a gun in hand like a lot of us have. I'm talking young as 35 and under. I think these are the ones who probably don't have the understanding or know the values which makes a sportsman. This causes a lot of issues because if your out to get drunk and have a good time you usually piss a lot of people off. And I feel for these people because myself and all my buddy's back when I was young had that mentality . Only difference was everyone knew us around the area so instead of being pissed off it was just kids being kids. I think to respect what being a sportsmans all about takes years of experiences or organizations " du, pheasants, elk foundations, NRA etc. sculpting hunters into what we call as sportsman. Like I said before most of your organizations in community's or even learning events usually have youth and or family's. The big foundations are where your adults who have little knowledge of hunting usually start out!

 

[Wild and Free]

 

[espringers]

I like the idea of making posting easier. That seems like a legit compromise

 

[hogslayer]

I was at the hearing and there was a lot of good discussion from both sides. I'm torn on the issue because I see both sides and ultimately I think property rights do trump hunting privileges when it comes to private land but as a sportsman I know this will be detrimental to hunting in ND as it is written. I do think there needs to be a lot more discussion and to search for a compromise on this issue. One of the biggest things that needs to be addressed is the burden of posting to the landowner. Good signs are expensive and it takes time and gas to put them up every year. I know farmers that have invested literally thousands of dollars in posting their land. I think making that easier to take that burden and cost off would be helpful. I like the spray painted post idea like other states have embraced. I think sportsman's groups should consider using some of their money to create programs to provide landowners with signs or possibly reimbursements for posting costs. Like I said I definitely see both sides and I hope both sides can work together to compromise on this issue and the bill does not go forward the way it is written. Many of the landowners that testified in favor cited specific incidents and altercations they had catching people hunting on their posted land. This narrative is similar to the gun control one. By changing the law to make posting implied it is not going to stop douchebag hunters from trespassing just like gun control is not going to stop criminals from possessing guns. It will only hurt and punish the law abiding citizens. I was very happy to see there were quite a few farmer/landowners that came to testify in opposition to the bill.

 

[eyexer]

the problem is strictly no prosecutions and/or no ramifications for breaking trespassing laws. Maybe we need to go with allowing land owners to just shoot trespassers like in the old days. after a couple shootings they would get the message.

 

[PrairieGhost]

Hogslayer I would be OK with giving out free signs, but not reimbursement. Not if a guy told you he spends thousands of dollars posting. Maybe he owned a couple of counties.

 

[johnr]

I am not a land owner, I have a home in town, so I am not able to speak for land owners. But I sure would rather this doesn't happen. The farmers I know either post their land to keep people off, or at least to get people to ask, and some don't post as they don't care if anyone hunts it, and they don't want to be pestered.

If hanging signs is overly costly, or difficult for land owners, I would think we could sure have a program to help produce and hang the no hunting signs for them. I rather enjoy finding some open land out there while deer hunting and seeing a nice big buck on it, and not having to delay my pursuit of this deer to try to get permission on land where the person obviously is indifferent to anyone hunting it. Lets not make things harder for the hunter, or the land owner. Enforce the rules/laws we have now.