automatic charging relays

guywhofishes · Aug 10, 2016

Thinking of adding a second battery (house) vs engine (start) since I will be drawing more juice with live wells, two bigger graphs, SSR box, yadda.

Main reason is that the voltage drops below the electronic's tolerances and kills them (can't be good for them either) after an hour or two everything running and I start the big white johnson.

I was thinking of adding one of these. Any experience with them? Seems handy! Batteries tied together when necessary - isolated when not.

https://www.bluesea.com/resources/57

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Or does one just add a second battery in parallel and be done with it?

DirtyMike · Aug 10, 2016

I've been letting this idea rattle around in the ole noggin for a while as well. My electrician father in law said just to hook another cranking battery up in parallel fashion.

guywhofishes · Aug 10, 2016

What ACR approach does do is absolutely guard against "oops... I bumped bilge pump switch getting out of boat during storm last night" and finding both batteries drawn down.

I have a battery switch that turns everything off - but sometimes forget to switch it off at end of the day.

sweeney · Aug 10, 2016

I would either buy a bigger group size battery ie. group 29-31 or buy 2 new group 24s and go with that in parallel. I always keep a lithium ion charger/jump pack in my boat because I have a similar problem but lack the ability to add another battery. I keep the blue fuel jump pack I bought at napa in my boat that has started my boat when completely dead before, plus it has a flashlight and usb chargers on it as well.

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you never know when some jackass is going to check the fuel level in the boat then leave the key on all night the day before a tourney

Captain Ahab · Aug 10, 2016

I bet Tinker McTinkerton will figure it out.

This battery has been holding up well to the druthers of starting and steering a 300 Verado while running 2 ten inch graphs and live well. Haven't had a "boost" day yet. Knock on wood.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/CABE...4095080&CQ_search=advanced+angler+agm&CQ_st=b

NM 24 · Aug 10, 2016

Concerning your main reason, maybe it is a wiring capacity issue. I just rewired a couple of my electronics from getting power off the accessories switch to getting power (inline fuse of course) from the main power switch which uses larger gauge wires. First impression is my 'electronics powering off when starting main motor' problem has improved and when I run both units at same time voltage readings on both seem to be noticeably higher as well.

guywhofishes · Aug 10, 2016

NM 24 said:
Concerning your main reason, maybe it is a wiring capacity issue. I just rewired a couple of my electronics from getting power off the accessories switch to getting power (inline fuse of course) from the main power switch which uses larger gauge wires. First impression is my 'electronics powering off when starting main motor' problem has improved and when I run both units at same time voltage readings on both seem to be noticeably higher as well.

yep - small gauge wiring could be the culprit! Thumbs Up

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This concept has merit (using a small sealed lead acid - like we all use for ice fishing).

From the Trawlers and Trawlering forum comes a way that seems to be so simple that anybody can make this a DIY project that will protect their electronics from voltage drops.

It is quite simple. You use a small battery, like an automobile or lawn mower battery (or larger if you want) and connect all the instruments that need voltage protection to it. It should be located as close to the instruments as convenient. The negative of this battery is tied to the main battery negative.

You then connect the positive of this battery to the positive of the main 12 volt source (house or starting battery) with a cable that is slightly undersized. This is easier if it is a longer run to the main battery. Calculate the maximum load with all instruments on, then use a wire gauge and length so you get about 1/4 volt drop at maximum load.

If the main battery voltage is momentarily dropped by a load, the local instrument battery supports the load. Some current will flow back along the resistance wire but the resistance of the battery is so low in comparison to the resistance of the wire that the voltage won't drop much.

The battery will get a full charge because the voltage drop along the resistance will go to zero as the current goes to zero while charging with instruments off. Under normal instrument loads the battery will still get close to 100% charge.

No fancy electronics to maintain to do the job, just a piece of wire. Put a fuse in the circuit as well if it is a long run.

Ann-Marie Foster,
tech@yandina.com

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I'll investigate voltage drop using this approach:
http://www.boatingmag.com/how-to-check-voltage-drop

sweeney · Aug 10, 2016

guywhofishes said:
yep - small gauge wiring could be the culprit! Thumbs Up

- - - Updated - - -

This concept has merit (using a small sealed lead acid - like we all use for ice fishing).

From the Trawlers and Trawlering forum comes a way that seems to be so simple that anybody can make this a DIY project that will protect their electronics from voltage drops.

It is quite simple. You use a small battery, like an automobile or lawn mower battery (or larger if you want) and connect all the instruments that need voltage protection to it. It should be located as close to the instruments as convenient. The negative of this battery is tied to the main battery negative.

You then connect the positive of this battery to the positive of the main 12 volt source (house or starting battery) with a cable that is slightly undersized. This is easier if it is a longer run to the main battery. Calculate the maximum load with all instruments on, then use a wire gauge and length so you get about 1/4 volt drop at maximum load.

If the main battery voltage is momentarily dropped by a load, the local instrument battery supports the load. Some current will flow back along the resistance wire but the resistance of the battery is so low in comparison to the resistance of the wire that the voltage won't drop much.

The battery will get a full charge because the voltage drop along the resistance will go to zero as the current goes to zero while charging with instruments off. Under normal instrument loads the battery will still get close to 100% charge.

No fancy electronics to maintain to do the job, just a piece of wire. Put a fuse in the circuit as well if it is a long run.

Ann-Marie Foster,
tech@yandina.com

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I'll investigate voltage drop using this approach:
http://www.boatingmag.com/how-to-check-voltage-drop

lol why not just use some romex in the circuit... ^^^as explained above seems like a shitty idea, putting the positive of one battery to another and negative to negative is paralleling them, why would you want to do that with two different batteries. but do what you want I'm not seeing anything besides a fire.

guywhofishes · Aug 10, 2016

meh

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please describe fire risk if using fuses

sweeney · Aug 10, 2016

because if you think this is a good enough idea to do, you probably don't know how to size the fuse right lol

guywhofishes · Aug 10, 2016

Nice comeback. Made me look so foolish.

sweeney · Aug 10, 2016

if you charge a battery that should only be charged at less than 1 amp at 6 that probably wont be good either.

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I am just saying you are making a Mountain out of a mole hill, I don't now what your understanding of DC theory is but to me it's a waste of time and way more dangerous or at least troublesome to do what that lady was saying it makes no sense, not trying to make you look like a fool just saying.

guywhofishes · Aug 10, 2016

I hear you. Thanks.

Captain Ahab · Aug 10, 2016

Sweeny, have you been dipping into the whisky again?:;:

sweeney · Aug 10, 2016

after reading that idea I should and maybe have a smoke:;:smokin

MuskyManiac · Aug 10, 2016

I think you would be very happy with the Interstate group 27 XHD starting battery. It should keep your graphs from losing enough voltage to reset them when starting the big engine. Plus when your graph resets like this without a proper power down you loose your trails for that trip.

guywhofishes · Aug 10, 2016

I think it might all be in the voltage drop seen across the now "vintage" way they wired things in 2004.

Wild and Free · Aug 10, 2016

To be honest you would be best off adding a marine system dual battery isolation switch, very common and easy to do. isolates the engine starting battery from house battery with options.

http://www.boat-project.com/tutorials/dualbatt1.htm

deleted_account · Aug 10, 2016

guywhofishes said:
Nice comeback. Made me look so foolish.

lol

automatic charging relays

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