Vortex or Leupold

SDMF

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I don’t trust any of them 100%. For that matter I don’t 100% trust any rifle, ammo, or binocs. I can only think of 2 trips in the last 20yrs when I didn’t have a spare rifle/scope combo. In both trips I did however I’ve a spare scope, tools, and enough ammo to get the rifle re-sighted. I’d do the same if I had S&B scopes or any other brand on my hunting rifle.
 


Allen

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Do you think that in terms of pure resolution (not brightness) current glass is as good or better than the leaded crystal that can no longer be produced?

Leaded glass is still around, high end chandeliers, glass jewelry, etc. And especially when there's a need for dampening Xrays in a transparent medium like a cathode ray tube. Where you don't see it anymore though is in drinking glasses.

I don't know if your question is an easy one to answer. Leaded glass was always known for its high transmission of light, partially because it was more homogenous, but it also has a 10-20% higher refractive index. This is how it gets its sparklyness that everyone liked for their glassware and chandeliers. One of the other really big advantages leaded glass had was its ease of manufacturing. Being able to melt it at lower temps allowed for fewer imperfections than what you'd get with borax glass.

So I guess the answer is probably yes now that I thought it through. Leaded glass's advantages meant lower skilled people could make near perfect pieces of work compared to the amount of skill you needed to get the same using borax (and other) based glasses. I'd have to imagine technology has helped a great deal in that sense even though I've never had to think of it before.


Of course, the downside to leaded glass was the lead content wasn't stable and would leach into the food and drink stored in it, especially alcoholic beverages. There's good reason to believe that some of Europe's old rulers (Caesar, Nero, and the like) were friggin nutcases from the lead they ingested during their drinking binges.

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Back on the original topic, when I was a kid I had Bushnell, Swift (yuck!), and Simmons (double yuck) scopes on my rifles. I tended to get 2-4 years out of the cheap things. Then I went Nikon for a number of years, not the best Nikons out there, but I never had an issue with any of them and still have a couple laying around. The ex got a Leupold GIVEN to her by a coworker, and that made me kind of become a Leupold fan, but now all I have in Leupold is a spotter and it's kind of marginal (one of those Asian versions SDMF mentioned). Recently put a Vortex Diamondback on my son's new 243 and so far, I really like it.


Technology changes and what was the top of the line yesteryear is now offered in store brand scopes. As SDMF pointed out that Cabela's scope is the equivalent of the older Zeiss Conquest scope that cost $900 just a few years ago...personally I wouldn't know as I am still scared to even pickup and look through a $1,000 scope lest I drop it! This tech eventually bleeds down to the cheap scopes, and if you think I'm kidding...go shopping at the used rifle rack in any sporting goods store. You'll find barely fired rifles with old Bushnell, Simmons, and other scopes on them that are just pure damn junk by today's standards for a $100 scope.

How the hell I ever killed anything with those old scopes of mine just about boggles the imagination!

And, of course, our eyes change over time.
 

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If your wanting to dial vortex. Luke moffat on rokslide just did a scope test and Leupold was the worst. On Snipershide Killswitch engaged has done a bunch and Leupold is consistently the worst. I know this is going to piss people off I am just reporting the tests done. They are easy to find on both sites. If just a scope and no dialing look through them and pick one that YOUR eye likes best.

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http://http://www.rokslide.com/forums/long-range-hunting/82741-scope-tracking-test-time.html

One link

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The one on the hide got deleted that sucks it had lots of good info



Assuming this is for hunting purposes, and scopes in the $600 price range track the same as this test, then either brand is just fine. Even if spinning turrets. Dialed in at 500 yards that Leopold would miss by 1.92 inches. The Vortex by 0.81 inches. At 700 yards the Leopold misses by 4.65 inches. The Vortex by 1.96 inches. This is based of shooting a 6.5 eldx at 2800 fps. If a shooter is good enough to compensate for wind and actually make that shot with a scope that tracks perfectly then the errors by the leopold could be over come because they are repeatable. So for me it would come down to price and which is on sale.

If the shooter is using factory ammunition then don't worry about turrets. A 20 degree temperature change can change your poi just the same as the errors with the leopold.
 
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Kurtr

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if the error is repeatable you just enter it into the program.

show me the numbers or which program you use to figure that much change with 20 degrees. i was wrong


i stand corrected and just used strelok and checked i would change 3 inches with a drop of 20 degrees never looked as the app figured it.
 
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PrairieGhost

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I just run the program for my 300 win mag at 700 yards. Today we are 32 degrees and my up is 12.9 inches. So I switched it to 52 degrees and my up is 12.7 inches. So that's .2 inches which is not even one click. One click would bring me closer so that's 1.75 inches at 700 yards and you think 1.75 inches is the same as 4.65 inch miss with the Leupold. Ya, I'm wrong.

My slower 6.5 is 14.1 inch and 13.9 inch come up for 700 yards. So same thing.
 

Kurtr

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I just run the program for my 300 win mag at 700 yards. Today we are 32 degrees and my up is 12.9 inches. So I switched it to 52 degrees and my up is 12.7 inches. So that's .2 inches which is not even one click. One click would bring me closer so that's 1.75 inches at 700 yards and you think 1.75 inches is the same as 4.65 inch miss with the Leupold. Ya, I'm wrong.

My slower 6.5 is 14.1 inch and 13.9 inch come up for 700 yards. So same thing.


Your looking at the wrong number. Your come ups are in moa not inches. The 6.5 drops 114 inches at 700 yards 14.9 moa is what I dial. Each "click"is 1.73 inches with 1/4"clicks
 

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I just run the program for my 300 win mag at 700 yards. Today we are 32 degrees and my up is 12.9 inches. So I switched it to 52 degrees and my up is 12.7 inches. So that's .2 inches which is not even one click. One click would bring me closer so that's 1.75 inches at 700 yards and you think 1.75 inches is the same as 4.65 inch miss with the Leupold. Ya, I'm wrong.

My slower 6.5 is 14.1 inch and 13.9 inch come up for 700 yards. So same thing.

Different powders react to temperature differently. It could be as severe as 2 fps for every degree in temperature change. So a 20 degree change can change that muzzle velocity +/- 40 fps. I ran numbers based on a .264 mm bullet at 2800 fps and 2760 fps. And the poi changed by 4.03 inches at 700 yards.

I was clear about what bullet I used in post #43. Only you would be smart enough to compare an apple to an orange. Nice try though.
 


Kurtr

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Different powders react to temperature differently. It could be as severe as 2 fps for every degree in temperature change. So a 20 degree change can change that muzzle velocity +/- 40 fps. I ran numbers based on a .264 mm bullet at 2800 fps and 2760 fps. And the poi changed by 4.03 inches at 700 yards.

I was clear about what bullet I used in post #43. Only you would be smart enough to compare an apple to an orange. Nice try though.

H4350 is very very temp stable I have shot at 0 and 100 and have a 10 fps change
 

PrairieGhost

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I was clear about what bullet I used in post #43. Only you would be smart enough to compare an apple to an orange. Nice try though.
Your so full of bs. You didn't tell us what weight only 6.5 ELD-X. I run the second program that I gave data for on my 6.5 ELD-X. The 143 gr to be specific. Your still full of bs about 20 degree differences.

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The IRM Enduron lineup is suppose to be stable as well. H4350 is just so hard to find.
I have all three of them and they are stable, but so far I can't get good velocity in the 6.5 Creed, 308, or 300WSM. The velocity was so poor I didn't save the targets and don't remember the accuracy. If accuracy was good I'm sure I would remember.
 
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Your so full of bs. You didn't tell us what weight only 6.5 ELD-X. I run the second program that I gave data for on my 6.5 ELD-X. The 143 gr to be specific. Your still full of bs about 20 degree differences.

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The 6.5 CM ELD-X only comes in 143 gr.
 


Kurtr

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Your so full of bs. You didn't tell us what weight only 6.5 ELD-X. I run the second program that I gave data for on my 6.5 ELD-X. The 143 gr to be specific. Your still full of bs about 20 degree differences.

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I have all three of them and they are stable, but so far I can't get good velocity in the 6.5 Creed, 308, or 300WSM. The velocity was so poor I didn't save the targets and don't remember the accuracy. If accuracy was good I'm sure I would remember.
Screenshot_20171201-213853.jpg

Screenshot_20171201-213806.jpg

Seven inches from 72 to 52 degrees.
 

PrairieGhost

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I went 32 degrees and 52 degrees. I only get 2690 fps out of my Creedmoor so I used the 6.5X284 at upper 2900's. However, I use the 140 VLD with a little lower ballistic coefficient. I'll try remember how to do a screen shot. Oh, I also used shooter. I think you need to knock out wind speed too if we are only looking at temp. I see you get seven inches while I get .7 inch. Screenshot_20171201-222810.jpgScreenshot_20171201-222731.jpgI have Strelok, Strelok+ and Shooter. I like Strelok+ when using the reticle on my AR, but Shooter is far superior for long shots with the bolt action. For example you need to enter your latitude for coriolis affect, and the azimuth of your target too. There is not to much affect under 600 yards, but start shooting 1400 to 1500 and your way off with Strelok+.
 
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Kurtr

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Wind changes nothing if I wanted strelok pro does all that I don't shoot 1400 so I will just get a can of spin d. Where does it show the inches on your screen shot

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There is not enough corriolis or spin drift to matter out to 1200 I know for a fact on a12" x 12" plate
 

PrairieGhost

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Try Shooter Kurt, I know you will like it. Few people know that at this latitude you will shoot hmmmm now I forget, but it's around six inches low when shooting 1000 yards west and six inches high when shooting east. Your also off about 3.6 inches in windage shooting north or south. Its great for first shot hits. Its only $10.

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Moa is left hand column.

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Notice 10 mph wind made a bigger difference than 20 degrees.
No I goofed it makes the same difference. Screenshot_20171201-230919.jpg
 
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