Abortion?

[Lycanthrope]

The left are masters at using language to control the narrative. The very first instance of this I can remember is when they coined the term pro choice. Its never about choosing to have the baby anyway, always about aborting it. Thats how gun control turned into gun safety. Global warming turned into climate change. When you control the terms of what something is called you control the narrative. I honestly think if people were forced to actually watch or learn what an abortion entails the public support of it would be 25% or less. You are allowed to believe what you believe and I am allowed to believe what I believe. In the end whether its sanctioned by the govt or not its murder. The dems are so obsessed with killing the unborn that some states have passed laws if a baby is aborted at a stage where it would be viable outside the womb and the abortion is botched, meaning the baby lives that no live saving measures can be given to the baby. Convince me that this isn't murder. Back to the language thing notice how months ago govt departments were changing the term woman to birthing people? Since this whole blowup this week when talking about abortions the terminology has flipped back solely to Woman. Also no one brings up how this will affect pregnant men.

 

[Browneye]

On a side note I just saw an article yesterday that Planned parenthood plans to spend 120 million dollars on donations in the midterm elections. So with very little republican support the dems spend almost 1 billion dollars of your tax payer money on planned parenthood. Planned parenthood then donates 120 million dollars on campaign ads, 98% of which goes to democrat candidates. This same concept is played out over and over with NPR, the Labor Unions, the teachers unions and so on. Are you beginning to see how this works they are using your tax money to campaign with instead of spending their own. It's amazing that republicans win any elections at all considering how the game is stacked against them.

 

[Retired Educator]

Thought I heard yesterday that the 66 million abortions were performed world-wide, not just in the US. It makes no difference what the Supreme Court decides. The abortion issue will never end. There is no compromise on the issue. If the discussion is about salary, for example, it's possible to come up with a number both sides can live with. Not so with abortions, there is no compromise.

It seems that many years ago when most abortions were probably done much earlier it didn't seem as prohibitive, now when when some are performed at a much later stage it's hard for a lot of us to stomach an abortion of a full-term baby. I personally don't like the idea of abortions when there are other options. Pretty sure some of you were like me when I married. When we walked down the aisle my wife and I knew we were going to be parents in less than the usual 9 months. Today can't imagine what my life would have been like had we chose the abortion route.

 

[bigv]

The leak was just a ploy to work towards midterms. The dems are losing control throughout the country. So now they leak this out to try to sway the vote back in their favor come midterms.

 

[BrokenBackJack]

Thought I heard yesterday that the 66 million abortions were performed world-wide, not just in the US. It makes no difference what the Supreme Court decides. The abortion issue will never end. There is no compromise on the issue. If the discussion is about salary, for example, it's possible to come up with a number both sides can live with. Not so with abortions, there is no compromise.

It seems that many years ago when most abortions were probably done much earlier it didn't seem as prohibitive, now when when some are performed at a much later stage it's hard for a lot of us to stomach an abortion of a full-term baby. I personally don't like the idea of abortions when there are other options. Pretty sure some of you were like me when I married. When we walked down the aisle my wife and I knew we were going to be parents in less than the usual 9 months. Today can't imagine what my life would have been like had we chose the abortion route.

I don't know if it was world wide or not. I thought it was in the U.S.
On the news here last night that 19+ million abortions were from Blacks. So a third of the abortions were from 13% of the US population.
With all the contraceptions out there, this shouldn't even be considered.

 

[wjschmaltz]

Its not a just personal decision though, because it directly impacts someone else... In a very negative way!

Exactly. I'm very libertarian, a live and let live type of person. Gay hippie loggers for Jesus. People should be able to live their own lives until the externalities of their decisions effect other people - especially the helpless. People should be able to do whatever they want on their land; unless they are polluting and the downstream effects are harming others. People should be able to do whatever they want with their bodies; until they are literally murdering a defenseless human.

All through history there have been groups of people pointing to other groups of people and claiming that those people are not real people. Today, the pro-abortion side makes this argument. And it's just as wrong now as it's always been. And those who are indifferent to this murder and simply turn away knowing these facts are just as guilty in this atrocity as the sick politicians and doctors. Make sure you are on the right side of history.

The abortion conversation really is not complicated:
Is an unborn child a human being? Yes.
Does abortion intentionally kill a human being? Yes.
Is it always wrong and should it always be illegal to kill an innocent and defenseless human being? Yes.

This isn't about reproductive rights. Reproduction has already happened. Abortion kills the child that has been reproduce; it does not prevent him from being reproduced. We can all agree that birth control of all sorts should be used by both parties involved in making a baby if you're not ready for the responsibility. That is what reproductive rights are, not abortion.

 

[Greenhorn]

- - - Updated - - -

Thought I heard yesterday that the 66 million abortions were performed world-wide, not just in the US. It makes no difference what the Supreme Court decides. The abortion issue will never end. There is no compromise on the issue. If the discussion is about salary, for example, it's possible to come up with a number both sides can live with. Not so with abortions, there is no compromise.

It seems that many years ago when most abortions were probably done much earlier it didn't seem as prohibitive, now when when some are performed at a much later stage it's hard for a lot of us to stomach an abortion of a full-term baby. I personally don't like the idea of abortions when there are other options. Pretty sure some of you were like me when I married. When we walked down the aisle my wife and I knew we were going to be parents in less than the usual 9 months. Today can't imagine what my life would have been like had we chose the abortion route.

Nope. The 66 million abortions is in the United States. World-wide is hundreds of millions - with probably most of those from China.
National abortion rates have gone down over the last few decades, but since 1973 (49 years) the US has averaged over 1 million abortions/yr.

 

[Tommyboy]

Why not just stop it at the source? All males born are required to have a vasectomy. When you want to have kids when your older, you get the vasectomy reversed. That would take care of all of the unwanted/rape pregnancy victims.

Or just the best "bulls" get to impregnate the women? We do it with livestock, dogs, cats, etc. Why not apply the same principle to humans?

Im obviously being facetious. But its another way to think about it.

 

[wjschmaltz]

Why not just stop it at the source? All males born are required to have a vasectomy. When you want to have kids when your older, you get the vasectomy reversed. That would take care of all of the unwanted/rape pregnancy victims.

Or just the best "bulls" get to impregnate the women? We do it with livestock, dogs, cats, etc. Why not apply the same principle to humans?

Im obviously being facetious. But its another way to think about it.

No, it's not. Again, reproductive rights are completely different than the right to kill a human. People want to use this example but it's completely irrelevant. Now if we were having an argument that the birth control pill should be illegal you would have a point. Nobody is making that argument. If promiscuous females want to start to require all males that they sleep with to have a vasectomy, then by all means go for it! And I can only hope that all the lefty males and frat boys voluntarily line up for a vasectomy in solidarity. Talk about humanity making a comeback!

 

[JayKay]

Yes, I'm strange.....I take logic out way to far, its a fault.

I see the real issue as UNWANTED PREGNANCY! Eliminate that, and abortion will never be an issue. We just need someway to end all the unwanted pregnancies. With today's birth control, there is really no reason for many. No matter how innocent you think your little darlings are, have them get the shot that lasts for a year. If we would teach how tragic it is to kill babies (by abortion) and push that narrative, like they push LGBTQYXYZXPTN, and SHAME or cancel anyone who does it, that would be a start. Again, end unwanted pregnancies, and abortion will be forgotten.

Great point. I'm pro-life all the way. But you have a great point. If "they", being mainstream media, villified people who've chosen abortion, as they do people who choose to believe in two genders, then it would be a great start.

I can barely imagine a circumstance where abortion is a good answer. Maybe if the mother faced certain death if she carried the child to term. Maybe if rape were involved. Maybe. But even these circumstances fall under the category of God's will, in my opinion. I have three daughters. I hope they never have to face one of the situations I've outlined.

- - - Updated - - -

While I realize this ruling would simply just transfer the decision to make abortions legal or illegal to each state…the number 66 million or whatever it was jumps out at me.

Yes, that is 66 million lives that were willfully discontinued. That is murder in my mind and is unthinkable and atrocious. It is 66 million unwanted pregnancies. Had they not been terminated I’m going out on a limb and saying most of them would then have been unwanted children and you don’t have to read too far into the headlines every day to see how that goes. Most of them also then unfortunately become more spokes in the multigenerational wheel of dependency and assistance and guess what often comes next…

I’m torn on this issue. I have three beautiful children that I could not imagine life without so how a parent could not want the blessing of a child is beyond me, but with my own two eyes I’ve seen what happens when an unwanted pregnancy turns into an unwanted child and the parent is not mature enough or willing to choose parenting over their own continued personal gratification. So I’m left thinking about what is worse - 66 million terminated pregnancies that were unwanted or 66 million children of which a large portion remain unwanted. It’s awful either way. It absolutely guts me though when I read a story about a child who is abused, neglected, abandoned, assaulted, molested, tortured, murdered, and everything in between by THEIR OWN PARENT who never wanted them in first place. Those stories are the ones that make abortion a much more complicated issue to me than simply “pro-life” vs. “pro-choice.”

It will never happen, but Rowdie is right in theory…solve the problem of unwanted pregnancies. Unfortunately, like most problems of the world this one is too far gone.

I understand your logic, and in many other things, I agree.

I can't wrap my head around being okay with 66 million murders, because "most of them would have been unwanted..". Or "a large portion remain unwanted".

I'm not attacking you. I DO understand your logic. I too have three children. I can remember my life before them, but it's vague. Much better WITH them, than without. One of mine is adopted. I could show pictures, tell stories, pull on heart-strings. I just can't imagine her not existing because someone thought she'd be unwanted anyhow.

Yes, many children end up in horrible circumstances in this world. Biblically speaking, we ALL live in a fallen world. To take logic to a greater extent, one could argue that we'd all have been better off to have not been born, at least into this world.

But there is beauty in our world, to be sure. There are good things. It makes my very soul ache, to think that a lot of people never get a chance...

 

[Wall-eyes]

I have two uncles and my very own father who are adopted.

It is a great option but apparently the process is so legally and financially burdensome these days that many couples who want to adopt are unable to do so.

You are correct on the process, so why does it have to be? Said parent does not want baby should not be rocket science and a easy way to get the process done.

 

[snow1]

Explain a 1-6 week pergnancy,no heart beat not a living being so-to-speak,how is an abortion at such a early stage a "murder?"

Further we have single gals that get knocked up after bar closing often,no telling who the daddy is/was shit happens,is it on the gal to round up the morning after pill or wait to see if she misses her period? then what? I don't have a dog in this fight just curious.

 

[ORCUS DEMENS]

Since many are making this a religious point, question for you. Does this issue affect your ability to practice your religion? Does it prevent you from attaining your spiritual goal of getting to heaven? Abortion is a very difficult decision. There are factors such as rape, financial, life circumstances, adoption is preferable but it is not always a viable option for some women. Abortion was illegal before, it did not stop them from happening. People with money and power got medical abortions those without got them any way they could.

 

[Dirty]

JayKay,

I appreciate the reply. A lot of good points have been made in the previous posts.

I am not okay with 66 million murders/abortions. I’m not okay with even one abortion and I agree - life begins in the womb not simply after birth. When people say, “my body, my choice,” that is bullshit. It was your body when you chose to be irresponsible and risk pregnancy so you could get off. Once conception has occurred, it is no longer your body with which the concern lies. It is a new body - a new life. I fully understand that. I just am unable to forget or ignore that when the abortion doesn’t happen and the baby is born that the problem has NOT been solved for that child. You now have the human life outside of the womb and the potential problems have not gone away. Blessed is the child in that circumstance who is adopted to a wanting family or whose parents that chose life realize how precious that life is and nurture it, and blessed is that child who goes on to live a fulfilling life because his/her parents chose life. But that is far from the case for many if not most of those children. For that reason it is a lot bigger issue for me than just pro-life vs. pro-choice. Some people can take it and leave it at that. I can not. When you choose life, that child needs someone to be along for the ride FOR LIFE, not just through the pregnancy.

I will be completely transparent right now: I do NOT condone abortions but it is a lot harder for me to read or hear about the atrocities that happen to children after they are born. Please do not interpret that as me saying abortions are okay or that they don’t equate to murder of a child because that is what it is…no sugar coating it. I’m just saying we have not saved the world and earned God’s good graces because an abortion did not occur. Choosing “pro-life” is a lot bigger than that.

I do know, as Twitch mentioned, this conversation has gotten a lot bigger than what the root of Roe v. Wade is and also what the current judgement would mean.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Explain a 1-6 week pergnancy,no heart beat not a living being so-to-speak,how is an abortion at such a early stage a "murder?"

Further we have single gals that get knocked up after bar closing often,no telling who the daddy is/was shit happens,is it on the gal to round up the morning after pill or wait to see if she misses her period? then what? I don't have a dog in this fight just curious.

Of course it is up to her, Im sure youve heard the "my body, my choice" slogan, maybe we should add another... "My body, my RESPONSIBILITY"

I find it funny, coming from the "words are violence" crowd, that literally cutting up a baby inside its mother and sucking its brains out using a vacuum appears to be fine...

 

[BrokenBackJack]

Was told by a Doctor friend many years ago, that if everyone had to watch an abortion and see the outcome of the pieces that are literally torn from the fetus, there would be far fewer abortions and it definitely wouldn't be legal.
If arms and legs are torn off the fetus, it just makes me cringe thinking about it. Sad, so very sad.

Also there was a news piece several years ago that described about aborting a fetus and when they delivered it, it was still alive and they take a scissor or knife and cut the brain stem. How in the heck can anyone do this? Isn't that murder if the fetus is delivered alive?

 

[wjschmaltz]

Explain a 1-6 week pergnancy,no heart beat not a living being so-to-speak,how is an abortion at such a early stage a "murder?"

See post #46: "All through history there have been groups of people pointing to other groups of people and claiming that those people are not real people. Today, the pro-abortion side makes this argument. And it's just as wrong now as it's always been."

Human life is human life. It begins at conception as far as me and the science are concerned. The ruling says that states must allow abortion up to viability (~20 weeks). If this is anyone's argument, they should be for reversing the ruling.

Further we have single gals that get knocked up after bar closing often, no telling who the daddy is/was shit happens,is it on the gal to round up the morning after pill or wait to see if she misses her period? then what? I don't have a dog in this fight just curious.

So people shouldn't be accountable for things they do after they decide to get belligerent? There are A LOT of circumstances from my early twenties where I wish this would apply. Should we let someone off that kills someone in a DUI accident if it happens after bar close? After all, they were drunk! It wasn't really their fault!

Since many are making this a religious point, question for you. Does this issue affect your ability to practice your religion? Does it prevent you from attaining your spiritual goal of getting to heaven? Abortion is a very difficult decision. There are factors such as rape, financial, life circumstances, adoption is preferable but it is not always a viable option for some women. Abortion was illegal before, it did not stop them from happening. People with money and power got medical abortions those without got them any way they could.

I have no doubt that it's a difficult decision. Please explain why it's a difficult decision. The reason is because the killing of a preborn child is involved. If that wasn't the case, you wouldn't need to play the difficult card. Now explain why someone's personal interests allow for the death of the child.

 

[Greenhorn]

Explain a 1-6 week pergnancy,no heart beat not a living being so-to-speak,how is an abortion at such a early stage a "murder?"

Further we have single gals that get knocked up after bar closing often,no telling who the daddy is/was shit happens,is it on the gal to round up the morning after pill or wait to see if she misses her period? then what? I don't have a dog in this fight just curious.

I'm glad you brought up this question. The most important question in the abortion argument is "what are the unborn?" Many arguments (overpopulation, quality of life, etc.) are merely distractions from this one question.

A fetus is in fact a human being. From the moment of conception an embryo/fetus is:
1. Alive - it grows, moves, metabolizes food for energy, reacts to stimuli.
2. Human - it has human DNA and has human parents.
3. Distinct - it has its own unique DNA that is separate from the mother's or father's.
4. Whole - it is its own whole organism, not just a separated part of another organism (like a sperm cell is merely part of a whole organism).

 

[Lycanthrope]

Colorado Law Allows Post-Birth Abortion (Infanticide) – Up to 28 Days

By
M Dowling -

April 24, 20223
1864

A new Colorado law is written so vaguely that it allows post-birth abortions – infanticide – up to 28 days after birth.
The new law declares abortion to be a “fundamental right” in Colorado. It denies all rights and legal protections to any “fertilized egg, embryo, or fetus” up to birth. It also prohibits cities and municipalities from banning abortions through local ordinances.

https://www.independentsentinel.com...ost-birth-abortion-infanticide-up-to-28-days/

 

[Greenhorn]

Since many are making this a religious point, question for you. Does this issue affect your ability to practice your religion? Does it prevent you from attaining your spiritual goal of getting to heaven? Abortion is a very difficult decision. There are factors such as rape, financial, life circumstances, adoption is preferable but it is not always a viable option for some women. Abortion was illegal before, it did not stop them from happening. People with money and power got medical abortions those without got them any way they could.

When human life begins is not a religious argument - it is biological. At what point human beings have human rights, like you and me, is a question of philosophy.
Religious arguments only come into play when discussing why human beings have and deserve rights that other living creatures do not have.