dirt/field prep for trees?

[Lycanthrope]

You can burn anything you want, if you own it. At a minimum you will want to call the rural fire dept to let them know your plans. If you talked nicely to them, perhaps you can plan a training exercise. They kind of did that with the airport earlier this summer.

As far as it staying smooth. Not a chance. Too many pocket gophers, badgers, rabbits, fox and other hole digging bastidges out that way. My land is rough as hell from them. I've thought about trying to smooth it out a bit as the it's pretty rough on the kidneys when out back on the tractor/UTV/pickup. I have a 6 ft tiller for my tractor but the experience I had with wormwood overtaking a small food plot I put in a couple years ago really keeps me from being overly excited about tilling anything. Actually, the couple acres I have broken up is going to get seeded back to grass this fall as I have most of the noxious weeds taken care of, finally.

Ive tossed around the idea of killing it, discing it a couple times and replanting right away with a pasture mix or maybe just alfalfa. Not sure how late in the fall can do that to avoid significant erosion come spring. I dont know what it is currently, but it aint pretty!

 

[Allen]

How many acres are we talking here? 40?

You may be looking at $200 an acre, or more, if you want to plant native grasses out there. In those examples, I suggest a well timed and planned spray regimen as being far more cost effective.

 

[pluckem]

Don't have any large plantings, but have put in about 150 conifers of various sizes and species. Meyers, Black Hills, Norway, Blue Spruces and Scotch and Ponderosa Pines. I don't have them in rows so I put in a drip system of 3/4", 1/2", and 1/4" diameter tubing over 2.2 ac and the 1/4" tubing got decimated by mice and/or rabbits chewing holes in it. Stick with 1/2" or larger

Some in the industry don't recommend planting Blue's anymore given the disease that is spreading across the area and wiping them out. Was actually just south of Valley City this weekend and boy that whole area the mature Spruces look terrible. Something is going on...

Norways meet the minimums temps we see up here but mine seem to suffer more winter burn and require more moisture to keep them looking good. Might be more suited for a backyard specimen tree vs. prairie windbreak tree.

So far my Black Hills have remained looking the best. They haven't put on much growth but they seemed to look the healthiest.

I will add the amount of time I have in them is way, way over what I anticipated. Get the equipment you need in advance (tractor, tiller, mower, sprayer, water tank/irrigation) and have it ready to go otherwise you will be playing catch up all season

 

[Lycanthrope]

Yeah, its 40 acres. Might build on it eventually but wanted to get some trees going first. Not excited bout living in the middle of a pasture... haha I might just have to pray for rain, keeping up watering a thousand trees seems near impossible.

 

[Glass]

mulch is cheap from the landfill if you know a trucker. If a guy doesnt want to do fabric, a thick layer of wood mulch can help conserve water. It will not provide the weed protection as well as fabric will though.

 

[Allen]

Yeah, on a forty there is no way you want to kill it off and replant. Not only is it prohibitively expensive, but you would clobber a lot of valuable native forbs.

Buy yourself a decent little sprayer and go after the undesirables in a selective manner to avoid killing off all your desirable broad-leafs (coneflowers, milkweed, lead, etc).

Owning land is great, but it's definitely not an effortless hobby.

Go plant some yellow chokecherries! Hah!

 

[Taylorman55]

I've put in close to 1000 trees in the last 3 years since we've owned our place. My main advice, use the fabric.

I first mowed a 5 foot wide path and then 3 passes with my 5 foot rototiller. Ground was absolutely beautiful. Not a single weed to be seen. (This is native prairie along river bottom and there was very, very few weeds to begin with, exceptionally clean land). Within a week of roto tilling, wormwood and thistle came at a rather insane rate. I thought for sure I could just spray and keep everything at bay, since I did noxious weed control for years as a job in the summer. WRONG. Even with careful monitoring/spraying meticulously it was overtaken and rather quickly. Out of the 300+ (3-4 foot) Black hills spruce, Colorado Greens, and Various other Pines I put in, I have about 20 that are alive right now. These trees were watered by hand once every week. Even with the rototilling, I did have to dig down with shovel to get these trees set at the right depth. Now, weeds were not the only issue here, and probably not even the main reason for a lot of the dying. Wind burn,I believe, along with a tree specialist I had come out and take a look, is thought to be the main issue. This summer I planted 500 poplars and austree hybrids on the north side of all of my evergreens. For my chunk of land, I'm going to have to get a fast growing tree going for a few years to take some wind stress off of my Pines/Evergreens. The poplars and hybrids are only about a 20 year tree, but if they can get my pines/evergreens a jump for a good 10-20 years, I can knock them out once they start dying. One thing is for certain, I will never plant another tree row without laying fabric down.

I recently applied with a local tree planting program, so we will see if I get accepted. Applied for 3500 trees to be planted. Hoping to have a fortress for the birds and deer when I retire. Good luck with the planting. Plant as many as you can afford with the help you have, in 20 years you'll be looking back on this thread and thanking yourself for the hard work you put in the next few years.

 

[NDSportsman]

I'd get the area where you want the trees good and black and once you have the trees planted with the fabric around them seed in between the rows with native grasses or alfalfa. That should keep the weeds to a minimum and cuts down on the maintenance costs.

 

[KDM]

HaHaHaHa!!!! First of all CONGRATULATIONS!! Second, you are so SCREWED!!!! You've just acquired one of the most addicting, frustrating, pull your hair out, wonderful items you will ever get in your life other than children. Welcome to the club my man!! Other than what's been said here, I LOVE my ponderosa pines. The open branches are a favorite spot for all the critters from deer to deer mice. Mine are in the middle of the block and guess where the critter highways are?? Another thing, DON'T worry yourself about every little nit noid thing that pops up out there. Keep weeds and other issues to a dull roar and let'er buck. There will ALWAYS be weeds out there. Try not to plant your "Utopian" like perfect selection of exactly what trees you want. Look around and focus on what grows there naturally, work within that frame, and add your "Unique" species. Our ash trees were completely decimated by pocket gophers going right down the rows eating the roots off. The hardwood rows where we had a pine every 4 trees or so are doing just fine. I'm also a big fan of the fabric despite the drawbacks. Not only does it control weeds, but it prevents those bushes that like to sucker and spread like wildfire from doing so and taking out the tree rows beside them. Think about tree tubes. Pretty cheap anti rabbit/mice/deer protection for succulent young tree bark IMO. We didn't and it cost us in lost growth and outright lost trees. If you want fruit trees, I'd plant them in a special area where you can keep an eye on them and put hog fence around'em. Otherwise your fruit trees will get to broom handle size and the deer will either eat them or RUB THE EVER LIVING CRAP OUTTA THEM!!!! Been there......it sucks. As far as soil prep. We plowed 4-6 ft rows, smoothed it out, and then planted, covered with fabric, and let it go. Mowed between the rows for a couple years and now it's going great. Took 25 years, but it's worth it! Have Fun!!!

 

[Lycanthrope]

What are your guys opinions on row spacing? The min recommended seems way too close. I think they suggested planting spruce and oaks with rows 15' apart? Seems they should be twice that distance, if you ever expect your trees to get to decent size! Also how necessary is a tractor? Better to buy an old one and hope it doesnt break down or buy something new that should last a long time and has warranty, etc? There is a 5 years 0 percent interest right now on Kubota, and orange is my favorite color!

 

[Taylorman55]

What are your guys opinions on row spacing? The min recommended seems way too close. I think they suggested planting spruce and oaks with rows 15' apart? Seems they should be twice that distance, if you ever expect your trees to get to decent size! Also how necessary is a tractor? Better to buy an old one and hope it doesnt break down or buy something new that should last a long time and has warranty, etc? There is a 5 years 0 percent interest right now on Kubota, and orange is my favorite color!

My pine/spruce rows were about 12 foot spacing between rows, and 10-12 feet between each trees. My Poplars and Austree Hybrids rows are 10 feet apart, with trees spaced 8 feet between.

I have 3 old tractor and while they do give me a headache once in awhile, I learn more mechanically each and every day having them. Overall they are reliable if maint. is kept up. I have a Ford 4000 gas (no cab, 55 hp. 3 point, 540 pto) that does all of my tilling, mowing, blading etc. A 656 IH gas Hydrostatic which is my favorite (Full cab, 65 hp and the hydrostatic drive is amazinnnggg, no 3 point, 540 pto) that I feed the horses with. Lastly I have a 1750 Oliver gas (Full cab, 85 hp, 3 point, dual 540/1000 pto) that I use for baling and snow removal. All have their place and use. I have had the thought of getting rid of all 3 and getting a newerish ride, but these old ones don't owe me a thing and are cheap overall to maintain. Paid $2700 for the Ford, $4000 for the hydro, and $3700 for the Oliver. There is quite a few nice used rides on Bisman right now 40-75 hp utility tractors for under 15k. I will say, new with warranty is quite a good feeling though I'd bet. If you have the money and would enjoy it and USE it, do it up!

 

[Allen]

Buy a gently abused and somewhat newer tractor, I prefer green paint but that's just the way I was raised.

I can't imagine you needing anything with more than 40-some HP, remember...each horse costs you money in fuel and initial purchase price. I have a JD 4120 (43 HP) and it runs my 6 ft tiller, a blade, the bucket, mower, and everything else I've dreamed up for it. You will want a tractor if and when you build out there.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Could your 4120 handle something like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ_1_hAnHj4

Also Im thinking a backhoe attachment could come in pretty handy when putting in geothermal for my house and greenhouse!

 

[NDSportsman]

JD has 0% for 5 years too. Gotta order early though as they are backlogged. I'd recommend ordering everything you want in one fell swoop. Kind of like ripping the bandaid off, always a pain adding more hurt later.

 

[Allen]

Yes, my 4120 can handle a one-bottom plow. I'd have to think it could easily do a two-bottom, but it's not something I've had a need for, yet.

Oh yeah, and I also have a small backhoe attachment for mine. It will only dig to about 7 ft, but I generally don't care if my enemies stay in the worm zone. Heh heh heh... I too have thought about using it for doing the dirtwork on a horizontal geothermal system in the future. Installing the loop is where a lot of the cost comes in on the geothermal stuff.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Yes, my 4120 can handle a one-bottom plow. I'd have to think it could easily do a two-bottom, but it's not something I've had a need for, yet.

Oh yeah, and I also have a small backhoe attachment for mine. It will only dig to about 7 ft, but I generally don't care if my enemies stay in the worm zone. Heh heh heh... I too have thought about using it for doing the dirtwork on a horizontal geothermal system in the future. Installing the loop is where a lot of the cost comes in on the geothermal stuff.

So what do you charge / hour to till tree rows, including the NDA buddy discount? Got a sprayer also? :;:thumbsup

 

[Allen]

Hah! I just spent 3 hours out in the cherry orchard, pulling weeds and watering trees. Every time I do my own shit I become more and more convinced that if you ain't Warren Buffet or Britney Spears, you can't afford me. Time is my most valuable commodity.

That being said, if you have very specific plans for evaluation, if I can't help you...Butler/RDO/XXX will always rent out the equipment you need. I'm pretty fortunate in that I live on a pile of sand, so I don't worry too much about running into a 500 lb rock buried 3 inches below grade.

When you are getting serious about sketching out a plan for what you want, send me a PM. I can always ride along for a visit and see if there's anything that I could help with...

 

[BrokenBackJack]

We put ours tree rows 12' and 15' apart and i would go at least 20' if i did it again. We also seeded grass in between the tree rows after we had the plastic down. Sprayed with the 4 wheel ATV and mowed with the front mount Woods mower. Sprayed with roundup around trees occasionally and had a young man that would also pull weeds by hand where i missed with roundup. Weeds would come up around the tree where the hole was cut into the fabric.
Had a water tank in the back of the old dodge pickup with plastic tubing rigged up so it came out the front drivers side of the dodge so i could drive forward and put the water right on the tree. That is another reason for wanting wider rows. You will welcome wet years once you plant trees!

 

[Lycanthrope]

I like the idea of installing drip irrigation, was thinking about running the pipes under the plastic and then mulching on top of emitters, around the trees, to discourage animals from messing with them.

Thanks for the offer Allen, Ill likely be taking you up on that. Im not too far from your place anyway
What kind of cherries you growing? Decent harvest this year?

 

[Allen]

Montmorency, North Star, and Meteor. All but the Meteor are too young yet to bear much fruit. Actually struggling to keep the ones planted last year and this year alive. Hence the caution on fishing too much when it's hot out. And frigging deer LOVE cherry leaves and buds.

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bbj,

That sounds like the setup I have with the UTV and a flatbed. I run an old RV water pump where the hose comes up to the cab of the UTV. Just drive right up and hose the tree down. I've thought about finding a better pump tho, this thing only puts out some 2 gallons a minute. Which is probably about right for getting the water to soak in around the tree, but it sure seems to take a lot of time to empty the 250 gallon water tank.