dirt/field prep for trees?

Glass

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Could your 4120 handle something like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ_1_hAnHj4

Also Im thinking a backhoe attachment could come in pretty handy when putting in geothermal for my house and greenhouse!



Man, that big shoe is gonna bring up rocks, and leave you with a mess IMO. If you want to control weeds I would look at a root ripper rather then that. Conversely you plant grass between the rows and just mow it a few times a year, which is better for the trees then keeping black dirt between the rows.

I looked into Geothermal for greenhouses in ND. I really dont know if you could get a system big enough to make a difference throughout the whole year. A few years ago we were going to build and a greenhouse was must, but after more research a walipini was clearly the way to go, as long as you dont have a shallow water table.

Just my 2 cents.
 


Lycanthrope

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Man, that big shoe is gonna bring up rocks, and leave you with a mess IMO. If you want to control weeds I would look at a root ripper rather then that. Conversely you plant grass between the rows and just mow it a few times a year, which is better for the trees then keeping black dirt between the rows.

I looked into Geothermal for greenhouses in ND. I really dont know if you could get a system big enough to make a difference throughout the whole year. A few years ago we were going to build and a greenhouse was must, but after more research a walipini was clearly the way to go, as long as you dont have a shallow water table.

Just my 2 cents.

Id did some research also after watching that video, our ground temps are significantly lower than where that guy is, about 10f. What I was thinking might be fun tho is to grow less hardy varieties of fruits, blackberries and grapes, etc. Using geothermal to provide some heat just on the super cold days of winter, maybe when temps dip below 0F inside... Shouldnt cost much to just push some air through the pipes during those freakin cold times.

I wasnt planning to for sure pull a plow like that, just thinking if I wanted to, it would be nice to have the ability down the road. Be nice to get a little deeper in garden areas than a typical tiller will go. My carrots always hit clay in my city garden and then end up pushing up out of the ground. A 10-12" dig would be nice to do occasionally.
 
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Glass

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Shouldnt be much of an issue where your at. That piece of ground is located on the old lake Menoken. Last time I dug out around that area I think it was about 30 inches till I hit a small clay layer.
 

Lycanthrope

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Never heard of 'lake menoken', musta been a biggun? Doesnt look like a lake now for sure!

Allen, do birds raise hell with your cherries? I have a montmorency tree but its big and doesnt set fruit heavily so I havent tried to net it. Cherries are all gone before they are edible. I really like my carmine jewel bushes, Id highly recommend them if you have any extra room.
 

Allen

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Yes, birds are hell on cherries. I am going with the swamp them out method where there's more available than the damn birds can eat. Meteors are great producers, but I've had a hard time finding them at reasonable prices and their availability has been poor as well.
 


Lycanthrope

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Are the meteors grafted? If not have you tried taking cuttings or grown any out from seed? I can probably find a few CJ seedlings for you if you want to give them a try...
 

Glass

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Whops, not Lake Menoken, but Lake McKenzie.

9-MO-RIV-BISMARCK_web.jpg


http://johnbluemle.com/9-the-missouri-river/
 

Allen

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Are the meteors grafted? If not have you tried taking cuttings or grown any out from seed? I can probably find a few CJ seedlings for you if you want to give them a try...

Yes, they are grafted. Some tart variant coming from the Montmorency line.

Carmine Jewel don't sound like a good option for me. At some point I will need to remove the deer protection I have for the trees. I think they will raise hell with their lower branches, Carmine only get like 5-7 ft tall from what I've read and that would (worst case scenario) only leave a couple feet of the trees unmolested from the deer.

- - - Updated - - -

Interestingly, I have what were labeled as Montmorency from Gurney's and the Arbor Day Foundation.

They look NOTHING like each other. Gurney's are grafted, AD's are not, and leaves are much more elongated on the Gurney's as well in comparison to the shorter more saw-toothed AD trees. I haven't figured out the reason why as of yet.
 

Lycanthrope

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Yes, they are grafted. Some tart variant coming from the Montmorency line.

Carmine Jewel don't sound like a good option for me. At some point I will need to remove the deer protection I have for the trees. I think they will raise hell with their lower branches, Carmine only get like 5-7 ft tall from what I've read and that would (worst case scenario) only leave a couple feet of the trees unmolested from the deer.

- - - Updated - - -

Interestingly, I have what were labeled as Montmorency from Gurney's and the Arbor Day Foundation.

They look NOTHING like each other. Gurney's are grafted, AD's are not, and leaves are much more elongated on the Gurney's as well in comparison to the shorter more saw-toothed AD trees. I haven't figured out the reason why as of yet.

This is the first year ive gotten cherries on my Evans/Bali cherry and Im surprised how large those are. Still pretty tart and I only got a few... How hard would it be to create a deer proof area for a few cherry bushes? I havent dealt with deer as predators before... Do deer mess with haskap also?
 


Lycanthrope

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So I got my soil test results back and its not great, really low N and P. Also the soil is acid, which really surprised me! I had them retest the PH, they re-calibrated their machine and it came back exactly the same. Im going to need to do some mild amending before planting trees I think to boost nutrients. Plan to keep it as organic as possible, will probably add some blood and bone meal. Allen, or any one else, have a pull behind or hitch mounted broadcast spreader available to rent for a couple hours?
soiltest40.JPG
 

wby257

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If you think back to the 30's 40's and 50's when all shelterbelts were planted. All were planted in virgin soil no prep work done at all. They had a sucess rate of 85 to 90%. I see no reason to kill off the grass then mow then till.
 

guywhofishes

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I'd look around the general area, talk to others who have tree/bush plantings. See what grows, plant those species where you "just want trees".

Plant limited berry/fruit species as test cases - see what does well, then plant more of what does.

In other words - I think you need to work with what the land can give you - amendments, fertilizers, etc. on many 100s of trees/bushes seems like a huge PITA and results in "the land working you" - screw that - ha ha
 

sierra1995

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I have an acre and half SE of bismarck and planted trees in 2016. I went with black hills spruce, freeman maples and lilacs. Some of the maples died off and i replaced with Amur maples, since then i haven't lost any trees, other than to the rabbits. I put down fabric, but did nothing with the soil other than mow the grass to 2.5". I used the shovel in the link below to plant all of them. The problem i see with tilling up or plowing the area, especially if there aren't any trees in the area now, is that the staples that hold the fabric down won't have as much to grab onto. My staples were pretty tough to put in, needed a 3lb hammer for most of them. If you roll the edges of the fabric into the soil and cover the edges, then not a big deal.

i spaced my rows too close together, only 10'. My spruce and maples are 10' apart tree-to-tree, and i wish i would've went more. My lilacs are 3' apart.

I go through all the trees (about 500 total) 3 times a year and pull weeds/grass that has come up through the holes in the fabric. I keep the grass between the fabric mowed and hand sprayed for weeds, and once a year i will put fertilizer down in between the rows, usually 20-10-10 from Hubbard. I'll hand water my trees a few times a year now. in 2016 when I planted them, i probably watered all of them about 6 times. I didn't install drip irrigation. Keep in mind i am not an agronomist or tree hugger of any sorts.. but i can see that with a drip irrigation system, the roots will stay towards the top where the moisture is, compared to letting the tree dig down to find its own water source. Kind of like the welfare system.. why work for your money when you can get it for free from the government.

My maples are anywhere from 4-7' tall, lilacs are 1.5-3' tall, and the spruce hasn't changed much since planting.

there is a lot of good information on this forum, learned a lot looking through here and seeing what everyone else does.

https://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/products.php?mi=15922&itemnum=69041&redir=Y
 

limit2winit

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Planted 3,000 trees this spring with something very similar to land shark plow posted above. i didn't use fabric and it really didn't create a mess as posted above. Actually appears as most of the dirt from the sod that was dug up ended up laying down back into the furrow from the rain. I haven't watered them once this year other than the 15"+ of rain we've received (which ill admit we've been extremely lucky with this year). We do have some weeds coming in, but those will be taken care of with a chemical treatment. Only prep we did before hand was spraying the areas before planting the trees. only issue there was we didn't use enough to do a full kill off. The trees so far look really good. better than what i was anticipating anyway. Everybody has their way of planting, at the end of the day there isnt a wrong way. get the trees in the ground and one way or another get them water. they'll grow
 


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1. Clay, not something you can do squat about as it will revert back to what it currently is for tightness in no time. Leave be and choose your trees accordingly.

2. It would be amazing if you could do drip, and of course it's possible. It just may be more expensive and difficult to design than you are looking for as a project.

Having planted thousands of trees over the years, I agree with all the above post!

3. You break up that soil and you will have an explosion of every noxious damn weed you can think of. Yes, guilty as hell, I am.

4. If you still prefer to go the break the ground route. Here's what I would do.
a. Round it up.
b. When dead, mow it close to the ground.
c. Run a tiller over it, a disc kills stuff, but if you want soil prep and don't go down 6-8 inches, why bother?
d. Don't go fishing too much when it's hot out. It kills the damn trees. Mostly because you aren't doing your job of watering them. The pines and spruces are probably more drought tolerant than deciduous trees you're planting, but even they would like a little attention.

5. Organic? Buy a hoe and a good pair of goatskin gloves. You're gonna need them.

Having planted thousands of trees in ND over the years and still planting them, I agree with Allens post 100%! Also, there's lots of pros and cons for fabric. I started using it about 25 or so years ago when it first came out and it was said it lasts about 10 years, then disintegrates. (Like the plastic twine on modern bales that my friend ranchers curse) . Nope, still there, but getting more overgrown with grass all the time,. Worth it? Probably. Sure saves a lot of time tilling, weeding and all that and probably conserves moisture.
The enemies of tree plantings are GRASS, WEEDS, and DROUGHT! Be prepared for some or all for the long haul. You cant just plant and forget - wish it were that simple.
Hope it all works out for you. IMHO we need more trees in ND! Nice to see someone doing something about it, even if he has an ugly Avatar!
Oh yes, buy a bigger tractor than you think you will need. preferably with FWA!
 

Lycanthrope

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Ive decided not to irrigate, except manually if things get super dry...
 
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Lycanthrope

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So I rented a bobcat and built a few pretty decent sized rock piles on Wed, also had a guy come and subsoil till the area where I plan to put trees. Now I need to find a heavy 'wishek' disk to break up the sod, the ripper messed up the surface areas in some places pretty bad. Anyone have or know someone in the bismarck/menoken area that has a heavy disk that can be used to break up prairie?
 

Davey Crockett

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Check with NRCS Lycan, I believe some districts have something like that they lease/rent , Or so I was told.
 


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